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From Joey Frazee <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Retire Apache Streams to the attic
Date Fri, 23 Sep 2016 17:05:03 GMT
The discussion +/- retiring the project is probably the right discussion to be having, but
I think in order to make a decision everyone ought to look at what steps could be taken to
get it out of a rut, and whether there's reason to believe those would be successful. So
far no one has said they don't think there's potential which suggests with some changes it
can get moving in another direction.

Here's a laundry list of things I think are worth discussing:

- What should the focus be? If you look at the code, the project really provides 3 things:
(1) a stream processing engine and integration with data persistence mechanisms, (2) a reference
implementation of ActivityStreams, AS schemas, and tools for interlinking activity objects
and events, and (3) a uniform API for integrating with social network APIs. I don't think
that first thing is needed anymore. Just looking at Apache projects, NiFi, Apex + Apex Malhar,
and to some extent Flume are further along here. Stream Sets covers some of this too, and
arguably Logstash also gets used for this sort of work. I.e., I think the project would be
much stronger if it focused on (2) and (3) and marrying those up to other Apache projects
that fit (1). Minimally, it needs to be de-entangled a bit.

- This has already come up, but maybe ActivityStreams 2.0 support would broaden the community
and motivate more work. It's also a concrete goal to work toward so people would know where
they can start.

- Steve and I did a little work here a few months ago, but the JIRA could reflect the priorities
better and I think keep the community working in a common direction.

- I think the project needs at least one mentor with a very strong incentive to keep it moving/participate
regularly. From the outside it doesn't look like that's there right now.

There are (active) TLP projects out there with monthly participation that you can count on
one hand. Getting to that over the course of the next 3 months has to be achievable.

So the question is really, what needs to change to motivate 5 people to jump in each month?


On Sep 23, 2016, at 10:50 AM, Suneel Marthi <> wrote:

I would echo Benjamin again. While in all honestly, I might not be able to
dedicate any time in Streams development given that I am fully engaged in 4
other Apache projects, I would like to join this project as a mentor and
help steer this to TLP.

Here's a video of Steve's talk in Berlin from last week btw:

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Benjamin Young <>

I am currently sitting in the W3C’s Social Web Working Group’s
face-to-face meeting and have just finished discussing features of
ActivityStreams 2.0:

The Social Web WG is nearing the end of it’s charter, and preparing to
ship the AS2.0 spec—which could be an opportunity for the Apache Streams
community to get back on its feet.

Had I known this group was in danger of shut-down, I would have done more
this week (at the W3C’s big face-to-face meeting: TPAC). I even gave a
presentation on getting W3C folks involved in ASF projects and vice versa.

There is great opportunity yet untapped for combining W3C and ASF
activities, and I’d hate to see this project disappear before such a major
moment in the chronology of ActivityStreams 2.0.

To that end, I’d like to know how I might help “jump start” the Apache
Streams (incubating) project and will certainly be pointing all W3C arrows
this direction.

So: Please don’t close this group before more cross engagement with the
Social Web WG and the ActivityStreams 2.0 community has happened.




From: apache<>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 4:15 PM
To: Ate Douma<>;
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Retire Apache Streams to the attic

On September 22, 2016 at 5:05:39 PM, Ate Douma ( wrote:
On 2016-09-21 18:28, apache wrote:
> I remain committed to building and sharing open-source software for
social web
> data interoperability. Participating in the incubator process has taught
me a
> lot, and I would like the keep the project operating at Apache, but as
> points out the community around this podling has never been healthy and
has all
> but disappeared in 2016.
> I would very much welcome anyone interested in this problem to volunteer
as a
> mentor or contributor. With even a few new committed active participants
I can
> envision the project graduating to TLP. Without fresh initiative, it
should be
> retired. Perhaps some of the codebase will be useful elsewhere.
Hi Steve,

Although the retirement for Apache Streams hasn't been formally decided, as
there hasn't been any further signal for support or initiative, it does
like we'll have to draw that conclusion soon.

You really tried your best in making Apache Streams a success, and with the
openness and focus fitting for the Apache Software Foundation.
That it didn't work out as anticipated and hoped for is of course
disappointing, but sometimes that's just the way things goes.

Thanks for saying so. There has been a lot of good work from the
committers involved but not all efforts ultimately succeed.

I definitely hope you will stick to it and at the ASF, contributing to and
joining other projects because you clearly demonstrated to be an fine
committer. And not just because you are a nice and really smart guy, but
as a great advocate of the Apache Way, at ApacheCons and other places!

Thanks for saying so. I’m not going anywhere. #bigdata is what I do and
ASF is where it happens.

> I’ll be submitting a (potentially final) release candidate later today.

I'll take a look and review the release candidate over the weekend, which
if OK
and when receiving +3 from the IPMC, indeed might become a final incubating
release for Apache Stream.

I'll follow up later on the VOTE thread for the release candidate on

Kind regards, Ate

> Steve Blackmon
> On September 19, 2016 at 10:25:16 AM, Ate Douma (
> <>) wrote:
>> On 2016-09-19 17:09, Suneel Marthi wrote:
>> > I am sorry to be reading this, but I was at Steve Blackmon's talk
last week
>> > in Berlin at Flink forward about using Streams + Flink.
>> >
>> > It was a very interesting talk and I chatted with Steve briefly about
>> > Streams project.
>> Good to hear that!
>> I wasn't aware Steve was presenting about Streams in Berlin.
>> >
>> > Is there absolutely no chance of reviving this project or giving the
>> > project some more time before calling the attic ?
>> Sure there is a chance, but for that the project needs active community
>> involvement. Which has been lacking for quite a while now.
>> Community building and involvement really is the primary problem for the
>> project with only a single active member, which is not sustainable.
>> However, if you are willing and able to get actively involved, and
rally some
>> additional community involvement as well, then I'd be happy to
>> the retirement VOTE for now.
>> I suggest to head over to, let us know
>> what you can and will do for the project, and see how that works out.
>> Regards, Ate
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Ate Douma <> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2016-09-19 16:33, Ate Douma wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 2016-09-19 15:44, John D. Ament wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Ate,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please also note the instructions from the incubator's retirement
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Right.
>> >>> Thanks for pointing this out John.
>> >>>
>> >>> I've never before had to handle a podling retirement and overlooked
>> >>> requires different handling from a TLP retirement.
>> >>> And with slightly different consequences, e.g. website will be
taken down,
>> >>> instead of flagged as being retired.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, to do this proper, I'll first cancel the vote thread on
>> >>> and open a new [FINAL][DISCUSS] thread for retirement again, this
>> >>> time also pointing to the podling retirement page.
>> >>> This way at least everyone on that list will have a proper notice
>> >>> the retirement entails.
>> >>> (not that I expect a different outcome, but there is no rush either)
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Reading the podling retirement guide a bit more thoroughly, I think
I it is
>> >> sufficient to restart the [VOTE] thread for retirement on dev@streams
>> >> with the
>> >> link to the podling retirement guide.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> And after that I'll open the final [VOTE] for retirement here on
>> >>>
>> >>> Ate
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> John
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 6:37 AM Ate Douma <> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> FYI, I've started below vote to retire Apache Streams, after I
>> >>>>> initiated a
>> >>>>> [discuss] thread more than a week ago, which resulted in zero
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ate
>> >>>>> (Streams mentor)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> >>>>> Subject: [VOTE] Retire Apache Streams to the attic
>> >>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 23:27:11 +0200
>> >>>>> From: Ate Douma <>
>> >>>>> To: <>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> As a final follow up on the earlier [discuss] thread, lets
>> >>>>> vote on
>> >>>>> retiring Apache Streams and move it to the attic.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The process is described at
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> [ ] +1 Move Streams to the Attic
>> >>>>> [ ] ±0 Proceed according to the majority
>> >>>>> [ ] -1 Do not move Streams to the Attic, because... [please
>> >>>>> justification]
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ate
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >

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