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From Steve Blackmon <>
Subject Re: December 2015 Report - Streams future?
Date Wed, 09 Dec 2015 15:59:46 GMT

Thanks - I'm giving your advice careful consideration and will come back to
the list soon with some proposed actions on each point.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Ate Douma <> wrote:

> On 2015-12-07 09:00, Ate Douma wrote:
>> Thanks for entering the report Steve.
>> I'll sign off and provide some mentor feedback as well later today.
> FYI: I've now signed off the report [1] and added the following mentor
> note:
>   Ate Douma (ate):
>     As reported above, mentor support has been too low, including my own.
>     I find the dwindling down of participation and contributions other than
>     from only one (very) active committer (Steve) worrisome.
>     More or even primary focus should be turned towards community
> development
>     instead of only churning out code.
>     I've suggested some concrete steps for this and propose to give the
>     project a bit more time to try building up a community and more
>     contributor involvement. As mentor I'll try to help out more as well.
>     However, if there is no substantial improvement within one or two
>     reporting periods, it might be better to consider retirement instead.
> Regards,
> Ate
> [1]
>> What I do think and want to strongly suggest is that the Streams project
>> isn't
>> so much lacking code or quality, but needs more 'presence'.
>> I know you've been presenting about Streams at conferences, but when a
>> newbie
>> starts looking for Streams I expect them to quickly be turned off,
>> because:
>> - the website isn't providing any practical guidance *why* or *how* to
>> use Streams
>> - its missing concrete examples and recognizable use-cases for which
>> Streams
>> might be used, nor comparison against other solutions, and why Streams
>> would be
>> a good/better solution
>> - the Architecture page only has some basic wording but provides no
>> insight
>> whatsoever about the concrete implementation and certainly not its
>> architecture
>> - there is no public javadoc or other technical documentation
>> linked/hosted
>> - there is a 'wiki (coming soon)' link which never has been activated
>> - the mailing list is NOT used for any form of discussion/information
>> other than
>> JIRA and Git(hub) notifications
>> - especially the latter doesn't give a newbie any indication what is
>> going on,
>> nor how to (start) interact
>> - there are no blog posts (that I am aware of) around using/trying out
>> Streams
>> either
>> What I suggest is to for a while stop (or largely postpone) working on
>> code but
>> instead working on any/all of the above points first...
>> Even working on a next release IMO is far less important than first
>> building up
>> some explanation *why* a release of Stream is needed.
>> And I personally would prefer the dev@ list to be much more / primarily
>> used for
>> actual human interaction, not just these notifications from JIRA and
>> Github.
>> Maybe change the configuration to delegate (some of) these to the commit@
>> list
>> instead?
>> I hope the above suggestions makes sense.
>> Not everything might be needed but I really think something needs to be
>> changed
>> soon about this to get Streams, as an Apache project, moving forward.
>> Kind regards,
>> Ate
>> On 2015-12-04 18:24, Steve Blackmon wrote:
>>> Thanks for the heads up on the board report Ate.  I'll get started on it
>>> now.
>>> My take is that code quality and functionality are still improving.  I
>>> agree that a release is long overdue.  The last release package I put
>>> together didn't mobilize enough votes within the project to reach the
>>> IPMC.
>>> I'm still committed to the project.  I'm disappointed other early
>>> participants haven't been lately because the project's mission of
>>> interoperability between data silos is important. FWIW I don't see any
>>> open-source community devoted to this mission currently growing outside
>>> of
>>> Apache either.  However, awareness of the problem, it's magnitude, and
>>> the
>>> real costs borne by developers and businesses continues to grow.
>>> While the project has not made much progress on it's graduation criteria
>>> over the last two quarters, I believe we can still turn the corner.  I'm
>>> wide open to suggestions for (and help) attracting new attention and
>>> contributors to the project.
>>> Steve Blackmon
>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 1:41 AM, Ate Douma <> wrote:
>>> Hi Streams team,
>>>> I just realized (too late) yesterday was the deadline for submitting the
>>>> board
>>>> report for Apache Streams...
>>>> I hope and suggest that we still provide one quickly before the end of
>>>> the
>>>> week, because it also is important to report the IMO current lacking
>>>> development of the Streams community and the project overall.
>>>> As a mentor I haven't paid much attention lately, which isn't good, and
>>>> neither
>>>> do I see the other mentors being involved, which I think is a even more
>>>> serious
>>>> problem.
>>>> And I think only/mostly Steve now is churning out code, but with
>>>> little/no
>>>> mailing list interaction or discussion with others.
>>>> So while possibly code-wise Streams might be doing alright (honestly: I
>>>> have no
>>>> clue), I see no progress at all in community development, more likely a
>>>> decline...
>>>> No releases either and I see no plan or any discussion for that matter.
>>>> With this current state and lack of progress I really wonder what the
>>>> future
>>>> for Apache Streams is, how it ever could get graduate from the incubator
>>>> this
>>>> way, and if it maybe wouldn't be better for it to retire and move the
>>>> development to github or elsewhere?
>>>> WDYT?
>>>> Ate
>>>> On 2015-11-26 21:45, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>>>> Greetings, {podling} developers!
>>>>> This is a reminder that your report is due next Wednesday, December
>>>>> 2nd.  Details below.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Marvin Humphrey, Report Manager for December, on behalf of the
>>>>> Incubator PMC
>>>>> ---------------
>>>>> Dear podling,
>>>>> This email was sent by an automated system on behalf of the Apache
>>>>> Incubator PMC. It is an initial reminder to give you plenty of time to
>>>>> prepare your quarterly board report.
>>>>> The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 16 December 2015, 10:30 am PST.
>>>>> The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC
>>>>> report. The Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks
>>>>> before the board meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and
>>>>> submission (Wed, December 2nd).
>>>>> Please submit your report with sufficient time to allow the Incubator
>>>>> PMC, and subsequently board members to review and digest. Again, the
>>>>> very latest you should submit your report is 2 weeks prior to the board
>>>>> meeting.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> The Apache Incubator PMC
>>>>> Submitting your Report
>>>>> ----------------------
>>>>> Your report should contain the following:
>>>>> *   Your project name
>>>>> *   A brief description of your project, which assumes no knowledge of
>>>>>       the project or necessarily of its field
>>>>> *   A list of the three most important issues to address in the move
>>>>>       towards graduation.
>>>>> *   Any issues that the Incubator PMC or ASF Board might wish/need to
>>>>> be
>>>>>       aware of
>>>>> *   How has the community developed since the last report
>>>>> *   How has the project developed since the last report.
>>>>> This should be appended to the Incubator Wiki page at:
>>>>> Note: This is manually populated. You may need to wait a little before
>>>>> this page is created from a template.
>>>>> Mentors
>>>>> -------
>>>>> Mentors should review reports for their project(s) and sign them off
>>>>> the Incubator wiki page. Signing off reports shows that you are
>>>>> following the project - projects that are not signed may raise alarms
>>>>> for the Incubator PMC.
>>>>> Incubator PMC

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