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From Ate Douma <>
Subject Re: December 2015 Report - Streams future?
Date Mon, 07 Dec 2015 22:15:40 GMT
On 2015-12-07 09:00, Ate Douma wrote:
> Thanks for entering the report Steve.
> I'll sign off and provide some mentor feedback as well later today.

FYI: I've now signed off the report [1] and added the following mentor note:

   Ate Douma (ate):

     As reported above, mentor support has been too low, including my own.
     I find the dwindling down of participation and contributions other than
     from only one (very) active committer (Steve) worrisome.
     More or even primary focus should be turned towards community development
     instead of only churning out code.
     I've suggested some concrete steps for this and propose to give the
     project a bit more time to try building up a community and more
     contributor involvement. As mentor I'll try to help out more as well.
     However, if there is no substantial improvement within one or two
     reporting periods, it might be better to consider retirement instead.



> What I do think and want to strongly suggest is that the Streams project isn't
> so much lacking code or quality, but needs more 'presence'.
> I know you've been presenting about Streams at conferences, but when a newbie
> starts looking for Streams I expect them to quickly be turned off, because:
> - the website isn't providing any practical guidance *why* or *how* to use Streams
> - its missing concrete examples and recognizable use-cases for which Streams
> might be used, nor comparison against other solutions, and why Streams would be
> a good/better solution
> - the Architecture page only has some basic wording but provides no insight
> whatsoever about the concrete implementation and certainly not its architecture
> - there is no public javadoc or other technical documentation linked/hosted
> - there is a 'wiki (coming soon)' link which never has been activated
> - the mailing list is NOT used for any form of discussion/information other than
> JIRA and Git(hub) notifications
> - especially the latter doesn't give a newbie any indication what is going on,
> nor how to (start) interact
> - there are no blog posts (that I am aware of) around using/trying out Streams
> either
> What I suggest is to for a while stop (or largely postpone) working on code but
> instead working on any/all of the above points first...
> Even working on a next release IMO is far less important than first building up
> some explanation *why* a release of Stream is needed.
> And I personally would prefer the dev@ list to be much more / primarily used for
> actual human interaction, not just these notifications from JIRA and Github.
> Maybe change the configuration to delegate (some of) these to the commit@ list
> instead?
> I hope the above suggestions makes sense.
> Not everything might be needed but I really think something needs to be changed
> soon about this to get Streams, as an Apache project, moving forward.
> Kind regards,
> Ate
> On 2015-12-04 18:24, Steve Blackmon wrote:
>> Thanks for the heads up on the board report Ate.  I'll get started on it
>> now.
>> My take is that code quality and functionality are still improving.  I
>> agree that a release is long overdue.  The last release package I put
>> together didn't mobilize enough votes within the project to reach the IPMC.
>> I'm still committed to the project.  I'm disappointed other early
>> participants haven't been lately because the project's mission of
>> interoperability between data silos is important. FWIW I don't see any
>> open-source community devoted to this mission currently growing outside of
>> Apache either.  However, awareness of the problem, it's magnitude, and the
>> real costs borne by developers and businesses continues to grow.
>> While the project has not made much progress on it's graduation criteria
>> over the last two quarters, I believe we can still turn the corner.  I'm
>> wide open to suggestions for (and help) attracting new attention and
>> contributors to the project.
>> Steve Blackmon
>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 1:41 AM, Ate Douma <> wrote:
>>> Hi Streams team,
>>> I just realized (too late) yesterday was the deadline for submitting the
>>> board
>>> report for Apache Streams...
>>> I hope and suggest that we still provide one quickly before the end of the
>>> week, because it also is important to report the IMO current lacking
>>> development of the Streams community and the project overall.
>>> As a mentor I haven't paid much attention lately, which isn't good, and
>>> neither
>>> do I see the other mentors being involved, which I think is a even more
>>> serious
>>> problem.
>>> And I think only/mostly Steve now is churning out code, but with little/no
>>> mailing list interaction or discussion with others.
>>> So while possibly code-wise Streams might be doing alright (honestly: I
>>> have no
>>> clue), I see no progress at all in community development, more likely a
>>> decline...
>>> No releases either and I see no plan or any discussion for that matter.
>>> With this current state and lack of progress I really wonder what the
>>> future
>>> for Apache Streams is, how it ever could get graduate from the incubator
>>> this
>>> way, and if it maybe wouldn't be better for it to retire and move the
>>> development to github or elsewhere?
>>> WDYT?
>>> Ate
>>> On 2015-11-26 21:45, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>>>> Greetings, {podling} developers!
>>>> This is a reminder that your report is due next Wednesday, December
>>>> 2nd.  Details below.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Marvin Humphrey, Report Manager for December, on behalf of the
>>>> Incubator PMC
>>>> ---------------
>>>> Dear podling,
>>>> This email was sent by an automated system on behalf of the Apache
>>>> Incubator PMC. It is an initial reminder to give you plenty of time to
>>>> prepare your quarterly board report.
>>>> The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 16 December 2015, 10:30 am PST.
>>>> The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC
>>>> report. The Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks
>>>> before the board meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and
>>>> submission (Wed, December 2nd).
>>>> Please submit your report with sufficient time to allow the Incubator
>>>> PMC, and subsequently board members to review and digest. Again, the
>>>> very latest you should submit your report is 2 weeks prior to the board
>>>> meeting.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> The Apache Incubator PMC
>>>> Submitting your Report
>>>> ----------------------
>>>> Your report should contain the following:
>>>> *   Your project name
>>>> *   A brief description of your project, which assumes no knowledge of
>>>>       the project or necessarily of its field
>>>> *   A list of the three most important issues to address in the move
>>>>       towards graduation.
>>>> *   Any issues that the Incubator PMC or ASF Board might wish/need to be
>>>>       aware of
>>>> *   How has the community developed since the last report
>>>> *   How has the project developed since the last report.
>>>> This should be appended to the Incubator Wiki page at:
>>>> Note: This is manually populated. You may need to wait a little before
>>>> this page is created from a template.
>>>> Mentors
>>>> -------
>>>> Mentors should review reports for their project(s) and sign them off on
>>>> the Incubator wiki page. Signing off reports shows that you are
>>>> following the project - projects that are not signed may raise alarms
>>>> for the Incubator PMC.
>>>> Incubator PMC

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