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From Ate Douma <>
Subject Re: December 2015 Report - Streams future?
Date Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:00:26 GMT
Thanks for entering the report Steve.

I'll sign off and provide some mentor feedback as well later today.

What I do think and want to strongly suggest is that the Streams project isn't 
so much lacking code or quality, but needs more 'presence'.

I know you've been presenting about Streams at conferences, but when a newbie 
starts looking for Streams I expect them to quickly be turned off, because:
- the website isn't providing any practical guidance *why* or *how* to use Streams
- its missing concrete examples and recognizable use-cases for which Streams 
might be used, nor comparison against other solutions, and why Streams would be 
a good/better solution
- the Architecture page only has some basic wording but provides no insight 
whatsoever about the concrete implementation and certainly not its architecture
- there is no public javadoc or other technical documentation linked/hosted
- there is a 'wiki (coming soon)' link which never has been activated
- the mailing list is NOT used for any form of discussion/information other than 
JIRA and Git(hub) notifications
- especially the latter doesn't give a newbie any indication what is going on, 
nor how to (start) interact
- there are no blog posts (that I am aware of) around using/trying out Streams 

What I suggest is to for a while stop (or largely postpone) working on code but 
instead working on any/all of the above points first...
Even working on a next release IMO is far less important than first building up 
some explanation *why* a release of Stream is needed.

And I personally would prefer the dev@ list to be much more / primarily used for 
actual human interaction, not just these notifications from JIRA and Github.
Maybe change the configuration to delegate (some of) these to the commit@ list 

I hope the above suggestions makes sense.
Not everything might be needed but I really think something needs to be changed 
soon about this to get Streams, as an Apache project, moving forward.

Kind regards,

On 2015-12-04 18:24, Steve Blackmon wrote:
> Thanks for the heads up on the board report Ate.  I'll get started on it
> now.
> My take is that code quality and functionality are still improving.  I
> agree that a release is long overdue.  The last release package I put
> together didn't mobilize enough votes within the project to reach the IPMC.
> I'm still committed to the project.  I'm disappointed other early
> participants haven't been lately because the project's mission of
> interoperability between data silos is important. FWIW I don't see any
> open-source community devoted to this mission currently growing outside of
> Apache either.  However, awareness of the problem, it's magnitude, and the
> real costs borne by developers and businesses continues to grow.
> While the project has not made much progress on it's graduation criteria
> over the last two quarters, I believe we can still turn the corner.  I'm
> wide open to suggestions for (and help) attracting new attention and
> contributors to the project.
> Steve Blackmon
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 1:41 AM, Ate Douma <> wrote:
>> Hi Streams team,
>> I just realized (too late) yesterday was the deadline for submitting the
>> board
>> report for Apache Streams...
>> I hope and suggest that we still provide one quickly before the end of the
>> week, because it also is important to report the IMO current lacking
>> development of the Streams community and the project overall.
>> As a mentor I haven't paid much attention lately, which isn't good, and
>> neither
>> do I see the other mentors being involved, which I think is a even more
>> serious
>> problem.
>> And I think only/mostly Steve now is churning out code, but with little/no
>> mailing list interaction or discussion with others.
>> So while possibly code-wise Streams might be doing alright (honestly: I
>> have no
>> clue), I see no progress at all in community development, more likely a
>> decline...
>> No releases either and I see no plan or any discussion for that matter.
>> With this current state and lack of progress I really wonder what the
>> future
>> for Apache Streams is, how it ever could get graduate from the incubator
>> this
>> way, and if it maybe wouldn't be better for it to retire and move the
>> development to github or elsewhere?
>> WDYT?
>> Ate
>> On 2015-11-26 21:45, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>>> Greetings, {podling} developers!
>>> This is a reminder that your report is due next Wednesday, December
>>> 2nd.  Details below.
>>> Best,
>>> Marvin Humphrey, Report Manager for December, on behalf of the
>>> Incubator PMC
>>> ---------------
>>> Dear podling,
>>> This email was sent by an automated system on behalf of the Apache
>>> Incubator PMC. It is an initial reminder to give you plenty of time to
>>> prepare your quarterly board report.
>>> The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 16 December 2015, 10:30 am PST.
>>> The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC
>>> report. The Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks
>>> before the board meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and
>>> submission (Wed, December 2nd).
>>> Please submit your report with sufficient time to allow the Incubator
>>> PMC, and subsequently board members to review and digest. Again, the
>>> very latest you should submit your report is 2 weeks prior to the board
>>> meeting.
>>> Thanks,
>>> The Apache Incubator PMC
>>> Submitting your Report
>>> ----------------------
>>> Your report should contain the following:
>>> *   Your project name
>>> *   A brief description of your project, which assumes no knowledge of
>>>       the project or necessarily of its field
>>> *   A list of the three most important issues to address in the move
>>>       towards graduation.
>>> *   Any issues that the Incubator PMC or ASF Board might wish/need to be
>>>       aware of
>>> *   How has the community developed since the last report
>>> *   How has the project developed since the last report.
>>> This should be appended to the Incubator Wiki page at:
>>> Note: This is manually populated. You may need to wait a little before
>>> this page is created from a template.
>>> Mentors
>>> -------
>>> Mentors should review reports for their project(s) and sign them off on
>>> the Incubator wiki page. Signing off reports shows that you are
>>> following the project - projects that are not signed may raise alarms
>>> for the Incubator PMC.
>>> Incubator PMC

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