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From Renato MarroquĂ­n Mogrovejo <renatoj.marroq...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Continuing the Momentum
Date Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:22:25 GMT
Hi devs,

Yeah the title was indeed compelling. You got me on that one lol
I think that you guys are right saying that for attracting new people maybe
we should try making the project's goal something more applicable in real
life than just being "a Lightweight server for ActivityStreams".
I liked the simple explanation I heard,maybe it was the pisco but please
correct me if I am wrong, "it's an abstraction layer for stream processing
engines". IMHO we have two things defined:

MISION:
1)  A flexible data processing framework that can run in multiple different
runtimes.  The goal being to abstract platform complexity and allow for
business logic reuse across real-time, enterprise, web and stand-alone
executions.

This is what needs to be done.

VISION:
2)  As a proving ground for the adoption of data format standards,
specifically ActivityStreams to start.  The community would work to drive
the adoption and evolution of such standards through real-world experience.

This is where we would like to get at some time. But also to get more
community engaged, things have to simple. That is a big issue we still have
over in Gora, and we are trying to solve it through talks, better
tutorials, integration with other projects, and so forth.
Just my 2cents guys.


Renato M.


2014-04-14 16:31 GMT+02:00 Matt Franklin <m.ben.franklin@gmail.com>:

> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Steve Blackmon <sblackmon@apache.org
> >wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Matt Franklin <m.ben.franklin@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> > > tl;dr version:
> > >
> > > We need to discuss things on the list more and work to define streams,
> > > update our public presence to support this definition and encourage
> > > additional engagement.
> > >
> > +1, +1, +1
> >
> > > Long version:
> > >
> > > For those of you unaware, Steve Blackmon gave a nice talk on the work
> he
> > > has been committing to Streams at ApacheCon.  As part of that talk and
> > > follow on discussions, it became clear that we as a community need to
> do
> > > some serious work to define ourselves, what we are building and why it
> is
> > > valuable to the industry.
> > >
> > If anyone who missed the presentation wants to see it, I'm happy to
> > host a google hangout to run through it.
> >
>
> Can you post it, or a link to it, on the website too?
>
>
> >
> > > Our website says we are a Lightweight server for ActivityStreams.
>  While
> > > this is true to some degree, I think recent contributions should refine
> > > this.  The new code is really about supporting flexible processing,
> > > persistence and retrieval of data in multiple runtimes using strongly
> > > typed, normalized data formats like ActivityStreams.  Personally, I
> think
> > > this slightly new direction is extremely compelling, and the reaction
> to
> > > Steve's talk seems to support that.  The question remains how does the
> > > community as a whole see the project?  What value is everyone wanting
> to
> > > get out of this effort?
> > >
> > The session tag-line which attracted ~20 attendees was 'Simplifying
> > Real-Time data integration with Apache Streams.' From talking to
> > coders and data scientists I always hear frustration with how much
> > time they spend writing code and workflow to move bytes around and
> > keep track of their data assets. I'd wager any survey of prominent
> > open-source libraries and popular commercial APIs would have to
> > conclude that schema and interface standards are completely absent
> > or sparsely adopted at many layers.
> >
> > Standards in hardware, operating systems, networks, and relational
> > databases brought about flourishing ecosystems. I believe standards in
> > data interchange such as ActivityStreams can do the same for the
> > social web, but not everyone will embrace standards for the sake of
> > standards. If we can offer integration points to the data sources and
> > repositories businesses want to work with, and demonstrate that
> > Streams can handle 'fire-hose' scale data volumes with arbitrarily
> > many intermediate hand-offs and processing steps on messages in
> > flight, I think we will see adoption from enterprises looking to
> > replace ESB-type systems that can't keep up with the volume of data
> > generated (both inside and outside their networks) that they want to
> > track.  Streams is pretty decent at ETL as well - a function that is
> > never going away, even as the underlying tools best suited to
> > performing it at scale constantly change.
> >
> > This future-state I'm attempting to describe will be a better one for
> > researchers, hobbyists, entrepreneurs, and consumers of web products
> > and services.  Configuration-driven, runtime-platform agnostic,
> > software for real-time data exchange:  where community-driven
> > standards such as Activity Streams can codify and evolve
> > best-practices via running code.  That is a vision that I think will
> > help us generate significant traction going forward.
> >
>
> Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you are proposing we
> update the mission of the project to the following:
>
> 1)  A flexible data processing framework that can run in multiple different
> runtimes.  The goal being to abstract platform complexity and allow for
> business logic reuse across real-time, enterprise, web and stand-alone
> executions.
> 2)  As a proving ground for the adoption of data format standards,
> specifically ActivityStreams to start.  The community would work to drive
> the adoption and evolution of such standards through real-world experience.
>
> This sounds great, though it is slightly different than the initially
> proposed functionality.  Personally, I have no objection to that, as what
> you describe encompasses the original goals and expands on them; but, it
> would be good for the rest of the community to weigh in.
>
>
> >
> > > The fact that there are not clear answers (and corresponding documented
> > > statements on the website) to these questions already means we are not
> > > doing a great job of following the Apache Way.  The Apache Way is about
> > the
> > > community and meritocratic, community-based decision making.  The ASF
> > > defines it as follows:
> > >
> > > While there is not an official list, these six principles have been
> cited
> > > as the core beliefs of philosophy behind the foundation, which is
> > normally
> > > referred to as "The Apache Way":
> > >
> > > collaborative software development
> > >
> > > commercial-friendly standard license
> > >
> > > consistently high quality software
> > >
> > > respectful, honest, technical-based interaction
> > >
> > > faithful implementation of standards
> > >
> > > security as a mandatory feature
> > >
> > > All of the ASF projects share these principles.
> > >
> > > Let's make sure we propose changes to the list, create tickets that
> > support
> > > wider efforts and leverage principles like lazy consensus to keep
> moving
> > > forward in a way that supports the community.
> > +1, +1, +1
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Matt Franklin <m.ben.franklin@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> > > tl;dr version:
> > >
> > > We need to discuss things on the list more and work to define streams,
> > > update our public presence to support this definition and encourage
> > > additional engagement.
> > >
> > > Long version:
> > >
> > > For those of you unaware, Steve Blackmon gave a nice talk on the work
> he
> > > has been committing to Streams at ApacheCon.  As part of that talk and
> > > follow on discussions, it became clear that we as a community need to
> do
> > > some serious work to define ourselves, what we are building and why it
> is
> > > valuable to the industry.
> > >
> > > Our website says we are a Lightweight server for ActivityStreams.
>  While
> > > this is true to some degree, I think recent contributions should refine
> > > this.  The new code is really about supporting flexible processing,
> > > persistence and retrieval of data in multiple runtimes using strongly
> > > typed, normalized data formats like ActivityStreams.  Personally, I
> think
> > > this slightly new direction is extremely compelling, and the reaction
> to
> > > Steve's talk seems to support that.  The question remains how does the
> > > community as a whole see the project?  What value is everyone wanting
> to
> > > get out of this effort?
> > >
> > > The fact that there are not clear answers (and corresponding documented
> > > statements on the website) to these questions already means we are not
> > > doing a great job of following the Apache Way.  The Apache Way is about
> > the
> > > community and meritocratic, community-based decision making.  The ASF
> > > defines it as follows:
> > >
> > > While there is not an official list, these six principles have been
> cited
> > > as the core beliefs of philosophy behind the foundation, which is
> > normally
> > > referred to as "The Apache Way":
> > >
> > > collaborative software development
> > >
> > > commercial-friendly standard license
> > >
> > > consistently high quality software
> > >
> > > respectful, honest, technical-based interaction
> > >
> > > faithful implementation of standards
> > >
> > > security as a mandatory feature
> > >
> > > All of the ASF projects share these principles.
> > >
> > > Let's make sure we propose changes to the list, create tickets that
> > support
> > > wider efforts and leverage principles like lazy consensus to keep
> moving
> > > forward in a way that supports the community.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Steve Blackmon
> > sblackmon@apache.org
> >
>

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