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From Matt Franklin <m.ben.frank...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Continuing the Momentum
Date Wed, 16 Apr 2014 15:10:54 GMT
On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Danny Sullivan <dsullivan7@hotmail.com>wrote:

> I think the big idea that we need to get across is "Hey, there's activity
> happening in your business/website/app and you should be recording it.
> Apache Streams lets you do that." Something that we should keep in mind as
> we build Streams is a concrete example (like a Streams "Hello World") that
> wows a first-time user. Right now we have "mvn install" with no further
> instruction in the readme.txt. Once we have that in mind I think the vision
> and road map will fall into place much easier.
>

I agree that having better examples is key.  Steve demonstrated some
examples that he is hosting on is own github.  If he is willing, I think
getting those put into the Apache repository would be a great step toward
this goal.


> Danny
>
> > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 23:22:25 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Continuing the Momentum
> > From: renatoj.marroquin@gmail.com
> > To: dev@streams.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > Yeah the title was indeed compelling. You got me on that one lol
> > I think that you guys are right saying that for attracting new people
> maybe
> > we should try making the project's goal something more applicable in real
> > life than just being "a Lightweight server for ActivityStreams".
> > I liked the simple explanation I heard,maybe it was the pisco but please
> > correct me if I am wrong, "it's an abstraction layer for stream
> processing
> > engines". IMHO we have two things defined:
> >
> > MISION:
> > 1)  A flexible data processing framework that can run in multiple
> different
> > runtimes.  The goal being to abstract platform complexity and allow for
> > business logic reuse across real-time, enterprise, web and stand-alone
> > executions.
> >
> > This is what needs to be done.
> >
> > VISION:
> > 2)  As a proving ground for the adoption of data format standards,
> > specifically ActivityStreams to start.  The community would work to drive
> > the adoption and evolution of such standards through real-world
> experience.
> >
> > This is where we would like to get at some time. But also to get more
> > community engaged, things have to simple. That is a big issue we still
> have
> > over in Gora, and we are trying to solve it through talks, better
> > tutorials, integration with other projects, and so forth.
> > Just my 2cents guys.
> >
> >
> > Renato M.
> >
> >
> > 2014-04-14 16:31 GMT+02:00 Matt Franklin <m.ben.franklin@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Steve Blackmon <sblackmon@apache.org
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Matt Franklin <
> m.ben.franklin@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > tl;dr version:
> > > > >
> > > > > We need to discuss things on the list more and work to define
> streams,
> > > > > update our public presence to support this definition and encourage
> > > > > additional engagement.
> > > > >
> > > > +1, +1, +1
> > > >
> > > > > Long version:
> > > > >
> > > > > For those of you unaware, Steve Blackmon gave a nice talk on the
> work
> > > he
> > > > > has been committing to Streams at ApacheCon.  As part of that talk
> and
> > > > > follow on discussions, it became clear that we as a community need
> to
> > > do
> > > > > some serious work to define ourselves, what we are building and
> why it
> > > is
> > > > > valuable to the industry.
> > > > >
> > > > If anyone who missed the presentation wants to see it, I'm happy to
> > > > host a google hangout to run through it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Can you post it, or a link to it, on the website too?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Our website says we are a Lightweight server for ActivityStreams.
> > >  While
> > > > > this is true to some degree, I think recent contributions should
> refine
> > > > > this.  The new code is really about supporting flexible processing,
> > > > > persistence and retrieval of data in multiple runtimes using
> strongly
> > > > > typed, normalized data formats like ActivityStreams.  Personally,
I
> > > think
> > > > > this slightly new direction is extremely compelling, and the
> reaction
> > > to
> > > > > Steve's talk seems to support that.  The question remains how does
> the
> > > > > community as a whole see the project?  What value is everyone
> wanting
> > > to
> > > > > get out of this effort?
> > > > >
> > > > The session tag-line which attracted ~20 attendees was 'Simplifying
> > > > Real-Time data integration with Apache Streams.' From talking to
> > > > coders and data scientists I always hear frustration with how much
> > > > time they spend writing code and workflow to move bytes around and
> > > > keep track of their data assets. I'd wager any survey of prominent
> > > > open-source libraries and popular commercial APIs would have to
> > > > conclude that schema and interface standards are completely absent
> > > > or sparsely adopted at many layers.
> > > >
> > > > Standards in hardware, operating systems, networks, and relational
> > > > databases brought about flourishing ecosystems. I believe standards
> in
> > > > data interchange such as ActivityStreams can do the same for the
> > > > social web, but not everyone will embrace standards for the sake of
> > > > standards. If we can offer integration points to the data sources and
> > > > repositories businesses want to work with, and demonstrate that
> > > > Streams can handle 'fire-hose' scale data volumes with arbitrarily
> > > > many intermediate hand-offs and processing steps on messages in
> > > > flight, I think we will see adoption from enterprises looking to
> > > > replace ESB-type systems that can't keep up with the volume of data
> > > > generated (both inside and outside their networks) that they want to
> > > > track.  Streams is pretty decent at ETL as well - a function that is
> > > > never going away, even as the underlying tools best suited to
> > > > performing it at scale constantly change.
> > > >
> > > > This future-state I'm attempting to describe will be a better one for
> > > > researchers, hobbyists, entrepreneurs, and consumers of web products
> > > > and services.  Configuration-driven, runtime-platform agnostic,
> > > > software for real-time data exchange:  where community-driven
> > > > standards such as Activity Streams can codify and evolve
> > > > best-practices via running code.  That is a vision that I think will
> > > > help us generate significant traction going forward.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you are proposing
> we
> > > update the mission of the project to the following:
> > >
> > > 1)  A flexible data processing framework that can run in multiple
> different
> > > runtimes.  The goal being to abstract platform complexity and allow for
> > > business logic reuse across real-time, enterprise, web and stand-alone
> > > executions.
> > > 2)  As a proving ground for the adoption of data format standards,
> > > specifically ActivityStreams to start.  The community would work to
> drive
> > > the adoption and evolution of such standards through real-world
> experience.
> > >
> > > This sounds great, though it is slightly different than the initially
> > > proposed functionality.  Personally, I have no objection to that, as
> what
> > > you describe encompasses the original goals and expands on them; but,
> it
> > > would be good for the rest of the community to weigh in.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > The fact that there are not clear answers (and corresponding
> documented
> > > > > statements on the website) to these questions already means we are
> not
> > > > > doing a great job of following the Apache Way.  The Apache Way is
> about
> > > > the
> > > > > community and meritocratic, community-based decision making.  The
> ASF
> > > > > defines it as follows:
> > > > >
> > > > > While there is not an official list, these six principles have been
> > > cited
> > > > > as the core beliefs of philosophy behind the foundation, which is
> > > > normally
> > > > > referred to as "The Apache Way":
> > > > >
> > > > > collaborative software development
> > > > >
> > > > > commercial-friendly standard license
> > > > >
> > > > > consistently high quality software
> > > > >
> > > > > respectful, honest, technical-based interaction
> > > > >
> > > > > faithful implementation of standards
> > > > >
> > > > > security as a mandatory feature
> > > > >
> > > > > All of the ASF projects share these principles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's make sure we propose changes to the list, create tickets that
> > > > support
> > > > > wider efforts and leverage principles like lazy consensus to keep
> > > moving
> > > > > forward in a way that supports the community.
> > > > +1, +1, +1
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Matt Franklin <
> m.ben.franklin@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > tl;dr version:
> > > > >
> > > > > We need to discuss things on the list more and work to define
> streams,
> > > > > update our public presence to support this definition and encourage
> > > > > additional engagement.
> > > > >
> > > > > Long version:
> > > > >
> > > > > For those of you unaware, Steve Blackmon gave a nice talk on the
> work
> > > he
> > > > > has been committing to Streams at ApacheCon.  As part of that talk
> and
> > > > > follow on discussions, it became clear that we as a community need
> to
> > > do
> > > > > some serious work to define ourselves, what we are building and
> why it
> > > is
> > > > > valuable to the industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Our website says we are a Lightweight server for ActivityStreams.
> > >  While
> > > > > this is true to some degree, I think recent contributions should
> refine
> > > > > this.  The new code is really about supporting flexible processing,
> > > > > persistence and retrieval of data in multiple runtimes using
> strongly
> > > > > typed, normalized data formats like ActivityStreams.  Personally,
I
> > > think
> > > > > this slightly new direction is extremely compelling, and the
> reaction
> > > to
> > > > > Steve's talk seems to support that.  The question remains how does
> the
> > > > > community as a whole see the project?  What value is everyone
> wanting
> > > to
> > > > > get out of this effort?
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact that there are not clear answers (and corresponding
> documented
> > > > > statements on the website) to these questions already means we are
> not
> > > > > doing a great job of following the Apache Way.  The Apache Way is
> about
> > > > the
> > > > > community and meritocratic, community-based decision making.  The
> ASF
> > > > > defines it as follows:
> > > > >
> > > > > While there is not an official list, these six principles have been
> > > cited
> > > > > as the core beliefs of philosophy behind the foundation, which is
> > > > normally
> > > > > referred to as "The Apache Way":
> > > > >
> > > > > collaborative software development
> > > > >
> > > > > commercial-friendly standard license
> > > > >
> > > > > consistently high quality software
> > > > >
> > > > > respectful, honest, technical-based interaction
> > > > >
> > > > > faithful implementation of standards
> > > > >
> > > > > security as a mandatory feature
> > > > >
> > > > > All of the ASF projects share these principles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's make sure we propose changes to the list, create tickets that
> > > > support
> > > > > wider efforts and leverage principles like lazy consensus to keep
> > > moving
> > > > > forward in a way that supports the community.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Steve Blackmon
> > > > sblackmon@apache.org
> > > >
> > >
>
>

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