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From Sanjiva Weerawarana <sanj...@wso2.com>
Subject Re: Incubator board report not circulated
Date Thu, 10 Apr 2014 23:19:17 GMT
Hi Noah,

Thanks for the clarification - I understand and appreciate the concern
you're raising.

I know this is not a reason to stop being concerned, but I can assure you
that WSO2 has no intention of stopping or slowing down our efforts on this
project in the foreseeable future. I can't project beyond that!

In any case, I apologize for appearing defensive .. that was not my intent
at all. I have no objection to having the clarified wording you wanted to
report to the board (for future reports at this point I guess).

We (WSO2) plan to very actively recruit others to join this project - even
more after graduation as people are a bit reluctant to commit to this stuff
otherwise. If you have suggestions on what to do I'm, and we're, all ears.
When you have a chance please do listen to Samisa's ApacheCon keynote talk
- that'll show you what we plan to do as a company for this stuff.

Cheers,

Sanjiva.


On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org> wrote:

> People are allowed to do whatever they please. And it's certainly not
> wrong for WSO2 to hire people from the community. I don't disagree
> with that at all. I'm making an altogether different point (which I
> will clarify below).
>
> I must also make it very clear that I do not believe Stratos is having
> issues operating in the open, nor have I ever implied that I think
> this.
>
> My concern is that that Stratos PMC is still heavily skewed with WSO2
> employees. This is a problem because what if WSO2 suddenly loses
> interest in the project? Will all of those PMC members continue to
> contribute the same amount?
>
> I'm not imputing anything about WSO2 here either. This is a *general
> problem*, and one which the foundation hopes to address with *every*
> podling and every TLP.
>
> We want to attract a broad base of diverse contributors so that we
> insulate ourselves and our projects from the whims, caprice, and
> changing life circumstances of our contributors, and the organisations
> that pay them to work on our projects.
>
> Another project I am involved with at Apache lost its progenitor, and
> one of the dominant companies employing people in the PMC "went
> rogue". We survived, thankfully. But it was a close call. And it
> probably wouldn't've happened unless the project had been as diverse
> as it was.
>
> So again: yes, I find it concerning that the makeup of the PMC isn't
> more diverse. I hope that this will be a priority for us until we're
> satisfied that we've diversified enough. Because again: doing so
> ensures the health of the project!
>
> I'll be honest: I feel a little perturbed by the reaction I've got in
> the last few weeks bringing this up. My attempts at productive
> conversation about this appear to have been met with defensiveness,
> which is not what I expect.
>
> The question I've brought up have been ignored or side-stepped, and my
> position has been mischaracterised several times. So I don't know if
> I'm doing a poor job of communicating or what here.
>
> And while I'm happy to go along with the other mentors, this makes me
> feel like the graduation is being rushed.
>
>
>
> On 10 April 2014 06:55, Sanjiva Weerawarana <sanjiva@wso2.com> wrote:
> > Noah totally +1 for diversity.
> >
> > However, are people allowed to switch employment? Is it wrong for WSO2
> (for
> > example) to hire someone else?
> >
> > *That's* the point of Roy's mail.
> >
> > Clearly your views are a bit different .. to me the MOST important thing
> is
> > that we make decisions and execute in a purely open, Apache Way way. So
> far
> > its very clear this poddling has done that and I believe all mentors but
> you
> > believe that. I don't think you disagree but I didn't want to attempt to
> > state your position.
> >
> > So, this group has done what it needs to do. The job NEVER finishes of
> > course - every email, every discussion, every event will either further
> or
> > damage the environment. That's what we need to be constantly vigilant
> about
> > and get right. Some of your suggestions ref board reports are awesome.
> Thank
> > you.
> >
> > Sanjiva.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am happy with the edit and have signed off. Thanks.
> >>
> >> Ant, saw that last month, yeah. From my perspective (and for the
> >> others on this list) diversity is one of the ways the foundation
> >> hedges its bets. It insulates us from people, and indeed
> >> organisations, losing interest in a project, or doing something weird.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't argue that diversity ought to be a requirement for
> >> graduation. But if a podling is having a hard time diversifying the
> >> PMC, that's a potential red flag. Why is it having such a hard time?
> >> Are people working on it?
> >>
> >> In the case of Stratos, the answers to that last question is yes. :)
> >>
> >> On 8 April 2014 14:50, ant elder <ant.elder@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > One of the reasons diversity may not be seen as the most important
> issue
> >> > now
> >> > could be from the discussion around the email from Roy saying that
> there
> >> > is
> >> > no diversity requirement, eg -
> >> >
> >> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-stratos-dev/201403.mbox/%3CCADENRmrH76dT%2BM02d3HKeuBiMeD%2BOsQvsHBSBhX%3DDZe8E2V%2BCg%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> >
> >> >    ...ant
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I would mention that the diversity question has come up. It was
> >> >> flagged in November, and it was flagged last month.
> >> >>
> >> >> It was mentioned as the top most important issue to address in
> >> >> January. This month it is not even listed. (In fact, number 2 is
> >> >> completely empty. Error?)
> >> >>
> >> >> "Community diversity was a concern during the last report, and it has
> >> >> been addressed by bringing in a number of non-WSO2 committers &
PPMC
> >> >> members."
> >> >>
> >> >> This is misleading IMO. It is *being* addressed, but it hasn't been
> >> >> addressed.
> >> >>
> >> >> There was a lengthy discussion about it, and my take-away was that
> >> >> other mentors think the project is on track to solve these issues.
> >> >>
> >> >> But I feel like the discussion, and indeed status of this as a WIP,
> >> >> should be reflected in the report.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 8 April 2014 14:08, Afkham Azeez <afkham@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Can we expand the section on diversity? I would say something
> like:
> >> >> >> the project recognises that diversity is area of concern and
is
> >> >> >> actively working to attract new and diverse contributors.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I would word it as "The project is actively working towards further
> >> >> > diversification by attracting more non-WSO2 contributors"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On 8 April 2014 12:19, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
wrote:
> >> >> >> > Devs,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I recently asked about the board report, and was told
it was
> being
> >> >> >> > prepared. I didn't hear anything else back about that,
nor did I
> >> >> >> > see
> >> >> >> > anything on the list.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I just checked the wiki:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/April2014
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > We have a board report filled in there. But I can't find
any
> >> >> >> > mention
> >> >> >> > of it on the lists. Was this circulated? How was this
done?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > In future, reports should be drafted with help from the
> community,
> >> >> >> > so
> >> >> >> > that people have a chance to chip in. Also, this helps
to alert
> >> >> >> > your
> >> >> >> > mentors that there is something to review.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Apologies if a note was sent out. I searched my email
for it and
> >> >> >> > cannot find anything.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> > Noah Slater
> >> >> >> > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Noah Slater
> >> >> >> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Afkham Azeez
> >> >> > Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com,
> >> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > email: azeez@wso2.com cell: +94 77 3320919
> >> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org
> >> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez
> >> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Noah Slater
> >> >> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Noah Slater
> >> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> > Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;  http://wso2.com/
> > email: sanjiva@wso2.com; office: (+1 650 745 4499 | +94 11 214 5345)
> x5700;
> > cell: +94 77 787 6880 | +1 408 466 5099; voip: +1 650 265 8311
> > blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/; twitter: @sanjiva
> >
> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
>



-- 
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;  http://wso2.com/
email: sanjiva@wso2.com; office: (+1 650 745 4499 | +94  11 214 5345)
x5700; cell: +94 77 787 6880 | +1 408 466 5099; voip: +1 650 265 8311
blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/; twitter: @sanjiva
Lean . Enterprise . Middleware

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