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From "Gavin" <ga...@16degrees.com.au>
Subject RE: Website Layout
Date Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:16:11 GMT


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gavin [mailto:gavin@16degrees.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, 15 August 2008 3:34 PM
> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Website Layout
> 
> Hi Martin,
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Sebor [mailto:msebor@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, 15 August 2008 11:32 AM
> > To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Website Layout
> >
> > Alright Gavin, thanks for your patience in discussing this.
> 
> No problem,
> 
> > If you can point me at your sources I'll generate the HTML
> > and commit the whole lot under
> >    http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/stdcxx/site/forrest
> > as you suggest, and work on replacing the existing site
> > with the generated docs.
> 
> I was working on it from your trunk, so I exported it and zipped it up as
> exported.zip in my home dir on people (gmcdonald).

Would it work if I zipped up my versioned files? Could you then overwrite
your versioned /forrest/ and svn up, never tried it before so don't know,
just trying to make it easier.

> 
> Just to recap, you should put those sources in /site/forrest/ and the
> generated html should end up /site/deploy/ or whatever names you want to
> call them.

Well, as an update on the infra thread, it has revealed some sites deploy
directly to their /www/$tlp.a.o/ directly. Joes has agreed to relax policy
and allow this to continue. It also looks like (if volunteers emerge I
guess) that a zone may eventually happen for projects to build sites on,
before deploying to /www/$tlp.a.o/

So, as it stands then, currently you still have to build offline, but you
can then deploy your generated docs directly if you wish. It is worth
reading the latest posts in the thread, especially Roys comments on why it
is still good to deploy to svn and keep your published site files versioned.



Gav...

> 
> Let me know how you get on.
> 
> Gav...
> 
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > Gavin wrote:
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Martin Sebor [mailto:msebor@gmail.com]
> > >> Sent: Thursday, 14 August 2008 6:32 AM
> > >> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
> > >> Subject: Re: Website Layout
> > >>
> > >> Gavin wrote:
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Martin Sebor [mailto:msebor@gmail.com]
> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2008 4:49 AM
> > >>>> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
> > >>>> Subject: Re: Website Layout
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Gavin wrote:
> > >>> <snip>
> > >>>
> > >>>>> So whilst we are at this level of even-ness (?) it is a good
time
> to
> > >>>> swap it
> > >>>>> over and make it live. However, over the next day or two, I
will
> add
> > >>>>> developer docs on how to go about updating the site,
> altering/adding
> > >>>> pages
> > >>>>> etc..
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Let me know what you think.
> > >>>> Sounds like a plan.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I assume we'll commit just the Forrest sources into Subversion
> > >>>> and generate the site out of them on people.a.o using a cron
> > >>>> job, correct?
> > >>> Well, I'm sure various projects do things in slightly different
> ways.
> > >>> However I would not recommend doing any building on people.a.o , and
> > is
> > >> not
> > >>> necessary anyway.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is how Forrest, xmlgraphics and a few others do it :-
> > >>>
> > >>> 1. Alter xdocs locally to your needs.
> > >>> 2. svn ci to get sources upto date in svn
> > >>> 3. locally run 'forrest -f publish.xml build'
> > >>> 4. locally run 'forrest -f publish.xml deploy'
> > >>> 5. /x1/www/stdcxx.apache.org svn up
> > >>>
> > >>> That's the general gist, more fully,
> > >>>
> > >>> Forrest stores its site source files in
> > >>>
> > >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/forrest/trunk/site-author/
> > >>>
> > >>> and the generated site docs go to
> > >>>
> > >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/forrest/site/
> > >>>
> > >>> A cronjob on p.a.o then runs svn up hourly to
> > >>> /x1/www/forrest.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>> The hourly sync to eos/aurora then picks that up and your updated
> docs
> > >> are
> > >>> then live.
> > >>>
> > >>> Again, with xmlgraphics, site source files stored in
> > >>>
> > >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/site/
> > >>>
> > >>> and the generated site docs go to
> > >>>
> > >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/site/deploy/
> > >>>
> > >>> /x1/www/xmgraphics.apache.org is svn of that deploy location, no
> idea
> > >> how
> > >>> often they run svn up or if it is done manually. Also no idea if
> they
> > >> use
> > >>> forrestbot (steps 2 and 3) or whether they svn ci the generated
> site,
> > >> you'd
> > >>> have to talk to Jeremias about that.
> > >>>
> > >>> So , possibly 2 slightly different methods.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm happy to help show the way to Forrests' method. And of course I
> > will
> > >>> continue to be on this list for any help required afterwards. One
> > thing
> > >> to
> > >>> note for others listening, it is necessary to have Apache Forrest
> > >> installed
> > >>> on your local machine in order to alter the xdocs, test locally,
> build
> > >> and
> > >>> then deploy.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is a renewed talk on infra lists about having a shared zone or
> > >>> something else where projects can build sites using
> > Forrest/Maven/Anakia
> > >>> that would be installed on the zone, the idea I guess is that
> > generated
> > >>> source files would live there and be copied over to various projects
> > >>> /x1/www/*.a.o/ area. I'm not sure how it would work exactly but I'm
> > >>> following for now to see how it pans out, or how long it will take.
> > Just
> > >>> thought I'd mention it, in the meantime we need to do one of the
> > above.
> > >> I assume you're referring to the thread on Automating parts of
> > >> the web site publishing process. I've seen the discussion but
> > >> haven't had time to follow it closely enough to benefit from
> > >> it.
> > >>
> > >>> So, here's how I see it for stdcxx :-
> > >>>
> > >>> Have forrest and site source files where they are currently in
> > >>>
> > >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/stdcxx/site/forrest/
> > >>>
> > >>> Have the generated site files in
> > >>>
> > >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/stdcxx/site/deploy/
> > >>>
> > >>> and 'svn remove' the current content from /site/
> > >>>
> > >>> The above structure will remove the nasty side effect you currently
> > have
> > >> of
> > >>> forrest source files viewable on the web
> > >> (http://stdcxx.apache.org/forrest/)
> > >>> doesn't look good.
> > >>>
> > >>> Then create a cronjob to svn up hourly (or whatever delay you
> prefer)
> > to
> > >>> update your /x1/www/stdcxx.apache.org with the updated site files.
> > >>>
> > >>> That's about it for now, what do you think?
> > >> Thanks for the detailed info! The depot structure and the cron
> > >> job approach sound reasonable (we already have a cron job running
> > >> to periodically update the existing site). My only concern is the
> > >> requirement to run Forrest locally on each committer's machine.
> > >
> > > I understand that.
> > >
> > >> Do you happen to know the other projects' rationale for checking
> > >> the generated sites into Subversion instead of generating their
> > >> sites directly on people.a.o?
> > >
> > > Yes, Infra Policy.
> > >
> > > It seems that since the site is
> > >> generated from sources that already are in Subversion there
> > >> should be no reason to version the generated HTML as well, and
> > >> being able to update the site without having to have Forrest
> > >> install seems like a significant advantage. But given that most
> > >> other projects do it differently I suspect I must be missing
> > >> some significant disadvantages of the "simpler" approach. Is
> > >> there concern with the overhead o projects running Forrest too
> > >> often?
> > >
> > > Imagine 200+ projects all building their sites with
> > > forrest/maven/anakia/whatever on p.a.o , all no doubt installing their
> > own
> > > copy too. The overhead would be massive if it were allowed.
> > >
> > > Also, generated docs I guess are still files produced by ASF projects,
> > they
> > > would also differ in their content and structure to the source files.
> As
> > > such having the history would be a benefit.
> > >
> > > I'm just guessing at that last bit, what I do know is that infra
> > currently
> > > insists that
> > > a) no projects to run builds on infra,
> > > b) generated site docs are to be in svn.
> > >
> > > So, unless you can change that, and perhaps until that infra thread
> > produces
> > > something - join in as a usecase if you think it worthwile, then I'd
> go
> > with
> > > my suggestion.
> > >
> > > Those that don't contribute to the website docs wont need forrest.
> > >
> > > fwiw if you used Maven or any other build tool you'd be in the same
> > > situation.
> > >
> > >
> > >> FWIW, the way I originally set up this project was to generate
> > >> the Forrest site in:
> > >>    http://people.apache.org/~sebor/stdcxx/forrest-site/
> > >>
> > >> The cron job that does the updating is in:
> > >>    /people.apache.org:/home/sebor/bin/update-site.sh
> > >>
> > >
> > > Well, I'm not saying remove it , but ...
> > >
> > > At the end of the day, I've made my recommendation, its up to you guys
> > how
> > > you want to proceed.
> > >
> > > I have Forrest installed of course so there is no problem with me
> > applying
> > > doc patches and generating the site, if one or two others are happy to
> > have
> > > Forrest on their systems locally, then we don't really have a problem.
> > >
> > > Gav...
> > >
> > >> Martin
> > >>
> > >>> Gav...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > >> Checked by AVG.
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> > 12:00
> > >> AM
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.12 - Release Date: 8/3/2008
> 12:00
> > AM
> 
> 
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG.
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> AM


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