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From Martin Sebor <se...@roguewave.com>
Subject Re: Website Layout
Date Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:04:23 GMT
Gav.... wrote:
> Hi Eric/All,
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eric Lemings [mailto:Eric.Lemings@roguewave.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2008 2:17 AM
>> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: [jira] Assigned: (STDCXX-686) redesign web site
>>
>>
>> I like it.  It follows the style of the current site so it's not
>> too disruptive.
>>
>> Couple minor suggestions:
>>
>> 1. Move the Documentation nav up to a tab next to the Download tab.
> 
> Yes, that can be done, no problem, I'll do that in my next patch if
> no objections.

Personally, I would probably try to tackle the migration of the
site as it is to Forrest first so we can publish it as our default,
and then work on improving the layout next. I don't know if this
approach makes sense or it's less effort to restructure it at the
same time.

> 
>> 2. Move all links at the top of the home page to the nav bar,
>> and subdivide them into groups (e.g. General [Objectives, About],
>> Project [Lists, Wiki, Status, News, Team], Technical (Bugs, Readme,
>> License, Platforms, References]
> 
> Those links are auto generated from <sections> in the source and are
> internal links to the relative section on that page. Dividing them
> would mean creating new pages and moving content out of the home page
> onto the new ones. This is no problem either, but its not my site, so
> do you guys want to discuss the layout how you want it and I'll make
> the changes ?

Sure. We don't have any design document or a rationale for the
current site but it makes sense to discuss it before Gav puts
in a whole lot of time into it. Btw., how difficult is it to
restructure the site in Forrest if we change our mind? :)

Here are some of my random thoughts on the subject...

As far as tabs and menus go, I'd be inclined to follow the layout
used by other projects. From what I see on the Forrest site, for
instance, every tab is a menu with each menu item pointing to
a separate page (although the Versioned Docs and Plugins tabs
look like they're messed up). So if we expect each of Downloads
and Documentation to break down into a number of menu items with
a page for each, making them tabs sounds dandy.

The one page I think is already way too long and that we should
probably break up into a number of smaller ones is index.html
(is there any kind of rule of thumb on how long the ideal page
should be?) We should probably split it up into an About page
(what is stdcxx), another one just for News, an another for
our "mission statement" (current Objectives). I can see us also
wanting to have a separate page or even a tab for Developers (as
on the Forrest page), and split that one into a page (or more)
for each of Committers, Contributors, and Users. And maybe also
PMC. Then there is Communication and Mailing Lists which could
be on the same page. I don't know how useful the References
section is. Seems like keeping this on the Wiki might work
better.

Btw., I should mention that during the restructuring of the site
I think it's important to preserve all existing links and ideally
also major anchors so we don't break links pointing to our site.

Martin

> 
>> 3. Where's the logo? :)
> 
> I'll fix that.
> 
> Gav...
> 
>> Brad.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gav.... [mailto:brightoncomputers@brightontown.com.au]
>>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:25 AM
>>> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
>>> Subject: RE: [jira] Assigned: (STDCXX-686) redesign web site
>>>
>>> G'Day,
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Martin Sebor [mailto:msebor@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Martin Sebor
>>>> Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 3:00 PM
>>>> To: dev@stdcxx.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] Assigned: (STDCXX-686) redesign web site
>>>>
>>>> Gav... wrote:
>>>>> Hi Martin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know what info you need from me next.
>>>>> Once the source files I sent are in svn, then I'll be
>>> able to patch
>>>>> properly against that.
>>>> It looks quite good, thanks! I published it in my home directory
>>>> to get some feedback from others:
>>>>
>>>>    http://people.apache.org/~sebor/stdcxx/forrest-site/
>>> As initial information for others, the look of this site is the
>>> standard issue 'forrest pelt theme' and if so wish, can be changed
>>> to have more unique feel to it. This can wait I think until the
>>> site is live and populated with docs.
>>>
>>>> Btw., it looks like a couple of typos snuck into index.xml and
>>>> bugs.xml. I corrected them to get forrest to generate the static
>>>> site (otherwise it fails)...
>>> Damn, sorry, I tested using 'forrest run' which ensures the
>>> site is mostly
>>> fine and working  - but does not scrutinise the xdocs for
>>> validity against
>>> the DTD. Only when a 'forrest site' or 'forrest
>>> validate-xdocs' is run do
>>> the files get checked against the DTD.
>>>
>>>> ... but I still get the error below at the
>>>> end. It looks like a link is bad or something.
>>>>
>>>> * [6/30]    [0/0]     0.016s 1.5Kb   themes/getBlank.js
>>>> X [0]                                     favicon.ico   BROKEN: No
>>>> pipeline matched request: favicon.ico
>>>>          at <map:mount> -
>>>> file:/build/sebor/apache-forrest-0.8/main/webapp/./site
>>>> ...
>>>> Total time: 0 minutes 15 seconds,  Site size: 182,695 Site pages: 42
>>>> Java Result: 1
>>>>
>>>>    Copying broken links file to site root.
>>>>
>>>> Copying 1 file to /build/sebor/tmp/site2/build/site
>>>>
>>>> BUILD FAILED
>>>> /build/sebor/apache-forrest-0.8/main/targets/site.xml:180: Error
>>>> building site.
>>>>
>>>> There appears to be a problem with your site build.
>>> Easy one and my bad again. Automatically a favicon.ico is
>>> associated with
>>> the site and is in fact copied there when doing a 'forrest
>>> seed-sample'.
>>> As you found out though this produces many un-needed sample
>>> files. So I
>>> created the initial layout with a 'forrest seed-basic' which gives you
>>> a site structure but no files and in this case no favicon either.
>>>
>>> So the cure is to stick a favicon.ico directly into the xdocs folder.
>>> The site will then build successfully.
>>>
>>>> The two typos are: a missing underscore in the section id
>>>> mailing_list in index.xml and a stray # in bugs.xml. Forrest
>>>> gives rather cryptic errors for them.
>>> The error messages were mainly to do with why they did not
>>> conform with the
>>> DTD - i.e the # symbol is not allowed directly beneath <ol>
>>> and points out
>>> that only <li> can go inside.
>>>
>>> Most of the time, we will use Forrests v2.0 DTD -
>>>
>>> http://forrest.apache.org/dtdx/document-v20.dtdx.html
>>>
>>> (it is working towards being more xhtml2 compliant)
>>>
>>>> So sounds like the next step is to commit the prototype into svn
>>>> and set up a cron job to get it periodically published into some
>>>> sandbox (such as my home directory) so we can work on the tables
>>>> etc. Is that how you'd like to proceed?
>>> Yep, fine by me, at least I'll be able to be useful with patches then.
>>> Once your happy with stability, completeness and the
>>> forrestbot publishing
>>> is working well, then it can be moved when your happy.
>>>
>>>> I'm also curious if you have a suggestion for our documentation.
>>>> Would it make sense to try to convert it as well or might some
>>>> other solution be more appropriate?
>>> I have referred this to the Forrest dev list. It should not
>>> be a problem
>>> in principle, convert the .html files into xdoc xml and then
>>> back into .html
>>> integrated into the rest of the generated site. Hopefully the initial
>>> conversion to xdoc can be automated. Once in xdoc xml format
>>> then they can
>>> be placed appropriately, added to the site.xml and tabs.xml
>>> files and from
>>> then on be part of the site proper.
>>>
>>>>> I notice Jira replies are set to issues@, is there a Jira
>>> ticket filed
>>>> to
>>>>> change this to dev@.
>>>> Not yet. I was hoping to get to it this week but lately time has
>>>> a habit of getting away from me... You don't happen to know where
>>>> to change this, do you?
>>> I don't have the access to do it, I've asked on #infra and
>>> will let you know
>>> if someone does it. Otherwise you need to send a mail to
>>> apmail@ and file a
>>> Jira Issue on infra for it to be done .
>>>
>>> (http://apache.org/dev/reporting-issues.html#mail-config)
>>>
>>>
>>> Gav...
>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>> Gav...
>>>>>
>>>>> <quote who="Martin Sebor (JIRA)">
>>>>>>      [
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STDCXX-
>>> 686?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Martin Sebor reassigned STDCXX-686:
>>>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Assignee: Martin Sebor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> redesign web site
>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 Key: STDCXX-686
>>>>>>>                 URL:
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STDCXX-686
>>>>>>>             Project: C++ Standard Library
>>>>>>>          Issue Type: Improvement
>>>>>>>          Components: Web
>>>>>>>            Reporter: Martin Sebor
>>>>>>>            Assignee: Martin Sebor
>>>>>>>         Attachments: Copy of stdcxx.zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Original Estimate: 16h
>>>>>>>  Remaining Estimate: 16h
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The current web site is a bunch of static HTML pages
>>> with a lot of
>>>>>>> difficult-to-maintain formatting cruft copied from
>>> pages of another
>>>>>>> incubator project. We should look into generating the site from
>>>>>>> easier-to-maintain "sources" using a tool like Apache
>>> Forrest or some
>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> You can reply to this email to add a comment to the issue online.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>> 1/12/2008
>>>> 12:00 AM
>>
>>
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