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From Matei Zaharia <matei.zaha...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Improving volunteer management / JIRAs (split from Spark Improvement Proposals thread)
Date Sat, 08 Oct 2016 20:49:44 GMT
I like this idea of asking them. BTW, one other thing we can do *provided the JIRAs are eventually
under control* is to create a filter for old JIRAs that have not received a response in X
amount of time and have the system automatically email the dev list with this report every
month. Then everyone can see the list of items and maybe be reminded to take care to clean
it up. This only works if the list is manageable and you actually want to read all of it.

Matei

> On Oct 8, 2016, at 9:01 AM, Cody Koeninger <cody@koeninger.org> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I've interacted with other projects that used that system and it was pleasant.
> 
> 1. "this is getting closed cause its stale, let us know if thats a problem"
> 2. "actually that matters to us"
> 3. "ok well leave it open"
> 
> I'd be fine with totally automating step 1 as long as a human was involved at step 2
and 3
> 
> 
> On Saturday, October 8, 2016, assaf.mendelson <assaf.mendelson@rsa.com <mailto:assaf.mendelson@rsa.com>>
wrote:
> I don’t really have much experience with large open source projects but I have some
experience with having lots of issues with no one handling them. Automation proved a good
solution in my experience, but one thing that I found which was really important is giving
people a chance to say “don’t close this please”.
> 
> Basically, because closing you can send an email to the reporter (and probably people
who are watching the issue) and tell them this is going to be closed. Allow them an option
to ping back saying “don’t close this please” which would ping committers for input
(as if there were 5+ votes as described by Nick).
> 
> The main reason for this is that many times people fine solutions and the issue does
become stale but at other times, the issue is still important, it is just that no one noticed
it because of the noise of other issues.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>                 Assaf.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Nicholas Chammas [via Apache Spark Developers List] [mailto:ml-node+ <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ml-node%2B');>[hidden
email] <http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=19322&i=0>] 
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2016 12:42 AM
> To: Mendelson, Assaf
> Subject: Re: Improving volunteer management / JIRAs (split from Spark Improvement Proposals
thread)
> 
>  
> 
> I agree with Cody and others that we need some automation — or at least an adjusted
process — to help us manage organic contributions better.
> 
> The objections about automated closing being potentially abrasive are understood, but
I wouldn’t accept that as a defeat for automation. Instead, it seems like a constraint we
should impose on any proposed solution: Make sure it doesn’t turn contributors off. Rolling
as we have been won’t cut it, and I don’t think adding committers will ever be a sufficient
solution to this particular problem.
> 
> To me, it seems like we need a way to filter out viable contributions with community
support from other contributions when it comes to deciding that automated action is appropriate.
Our current tooling isn’t perfect, but perhaps we can leverage it to create such a filter.
> 
> For example, consider the following strawman proposal for how to cut down on the number
of pending but unviable proposals, and simultaneously help contributors organize to promote
viable proposals and get the attention of committers:
> 
> 1.      Have a bot scan for stale JIRA issues and PRs—i.e. they haven’t been updated
in 20+ days (or D+ days, if you prefer).
> 
> 2.      Depending on the level of community support, either close the item or ping specific
people for action. Specifically:
> a. If the JIRA/PR has no input from a committer and the JIRA/PR has 5+ votes (or V+ votes),
ping committers for input. (For PRs, you could count comments from different people, or thumbs
up on the initial PR post.)
> b. If the JIRA/PR has no input from a committer and the JIRA/PR has less than V votes,
close it with a gentle message asking the contributor to solicit support from either the community
or a committer, and try again later.
> c. If the JIRA/PR has input from a committer or committers, ping them for an update.
> 
> This is just a rough idea. The point is that when contributors have stale proposals that
they don’t close, committers need to take action. A little automation to selectively bring
contributions to the attention of committers can perhaps help them manage the backlog of stale
contributions. The “selective” part is implemented in this strawman proposal by using
JIRA votes as a crude proxy for when the community is interested in something, but it could
be anything.
> 
> Also, this doesn’t have to be used just to clear out stale proposals. Once the initial
backlog is trimmed down, you could set D to 5 days and use this as a regular way to bring
contributions to the attention of committers.
> 
> I dunno if people think this is perhaps too complex, but at our scale I feel we need
some kind of loose but automated system for funneling contributions through some kind of lifecycle.
The status quo is just not that good (e.g. 474 open PRs <https://github.com/apache/spark/pulls>
against Spark as of this moment).
> 
> Nick
> 
> ​
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 4:48 PM Cody Koeninger <[hidden email] <http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=19310&i=0>>
wrote:
> 
> Matei asked:
> 
> 
> > I agree about empowering people interested here to contribute, but I'm wondering,
do you think there are technical things that people don't want to work on, or is it a matter
of what there's been time to do?
> 
> 
> It's a matter of mismanagement and miscommunication.
> 
> The structured streaming kafka jira sat with multiple unanswered
> requests for someone who was a committer to communicate whether they
> were working on it and what the plan was.  I could have done that
> implementation and had it in users' hands months ago.  I didn't
> pre-emptively do it because I didn't want to then have to argue with
> committers about why my code did or did not meet their uncommunicated
> expectations.
> 
> 
> I don't want to re-hash that particular circumstance, I just want to
> make sure it never happens again.
> 
> 
> Hopefully the SIP thread results in clearer expectations, but there
> are still some ideas on the table regarding management of volunteer
> contributions:
> 
> 
> - Closing stale jiras.  I hear the bots are impersonal argument, but
> the alternative of "someone cleans it up" is not sufficient right now
> (with apologies to Sean and all the other janitors).
> 
> - Clear rejection of jiras.  This isn't mean, it's respectful.
> 
> - Clear "I'm working on this", with clear removal and reassignment if
> they go radio silent.  This could be keyed to automated check for
> staleness.
> 
> - Clear expectation that if someone is working on a jira, you can work
> on your own alternative, but you need to communicate.
> 
> 
> I'm sure I've missed some.
> 
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