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From Matei Zaharia <matei.zaha...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!)
Date Wed, 03 Jul 2013 05:53:07 GMT
Hey Chris, given that we'll do this, how do we request a user@spark.incubator.apache.org list?

Matei

On Jun 28, 2013, at 7:42 PM, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
wrote:

> Hey Matei,
> 
> Yep the below is exactly what I suggested to Andy (per your plan below).
> 
> And yep I think with the $p.i.a.o namespace the transition is pretty
> seamless and doesn't require much from the users.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matei Zaharia <matei@berkeley.edu>
> Date: Friday, June 28, 2013 5:29 PM
> To: <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org>
> Cc: Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>,
> "spark-developers@googlegroups.com" <spark-developers@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling:
> Created!)
> 
>> Hey Chris,
>> 
>> I definitely understand that we need to move to Apache lists, and I think
>> that's fine, but maybe one question -- is it possible to transform the
>> *@spark.incubator.apache.org <http://spark.incubator.apache.org/> lists
>> into *@spark.apache.org <http://spark.apache.org/> more seamlessly when
>> we graduate? It's weird to ask users to move twice. If these could
>> somehow become aliases that would be ideal.
>> 
>> In any case though, I think we'll have a gradual transition. I'd first
>> move the dev list over, then the user one, and for a while I'd keep both
>> and keep a notice on the Google group. I'm not sure how Google groups
>> allow that but there must be a way.
>> 
>> Matei
>> 
>> On Jun 28, 2013, at 4:40 PM, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)"
>> <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hey Reynold,
>> 
>> I hear your pain - trust me I do - but at the same time it doesn't
>> make sense to half complete bringing the community over. Mailing list
>> conversation (especially user oriented ones) are one of the core
>> portions of open source communities at least in my experience.
>> 
>> There are not really many hard requirements here at the ASF -- there
>> are social norms and memes and old fuddy duddies like me who share
>> those memes and information with people to try and encourage open
>> source best practice, while at the same time trying not to disturb
>> all the awesomeness going on that you guys are leading.
>> 
>> With that, how many users are we talking about on the user mailing
>> list at this point? Can you give me an exact count?
>> 
>> I'm willing to spend the time to get people migrated now. Then,
>> migrating later from user@spark.incubator.apache.org to
>> user@spark.apache.org
>> will be really less of a hassle and a lot less difficult since we
>> are really moving from ezmlm to ezmlm. Also with the $podling.i.a.o
>> namespace I think even now we can use spark.apache.org (*think*)
>> which in turn could cause even less hassle later. In addition, like
>> I said, when we graduate to TLP I'll also be happy to contribute
>> time towards making the migration as seamless as possible.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Reynold Xin <reynoldx@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org"
>> <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org>
>> Date: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:08 PM
>> To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org>
>> Cc: Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>,
>> "spark-developers@googlegroups.com" <spark-developers@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling:
>> Created!)
>> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> There are a lot of user preferences set by them (e.g. individual emails vs
>> batch) that wouldn't work when you just "import". If user list is not an
>> absolute requirement for the incubator, it would make sense to delay
>> the migration of user lists until we are graduating to a TLP.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) <
>> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Andy et al.,
>> 
>> Why don't we just collect the current subscribers to the Google Group,
>> get them to me, and I'll subscribe them to the ASF new lists? I'm happy
>> to create a user list here at the ASF for the project, and to migrate
>> the users. Then all they would have to do is remember to use the new
>> email when addressing. A change, yes, I know, but still a minimal one.
>> 
>> That OK?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>
>> Date: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:04 PM
>> To: jpluser <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
>> Cc: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org>,
>> "spark-developers@googlegroups.com" <spark-developers@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling:
>> Created!)
>> 
>> + spark-developers@googlegroups.com to loop in those who haven't
>> subscribed to dev@spark.i.a.o yet, (also because my emails are getting
>> bounced by Apache's spam filters).
>> 
>> I wanted to respond here in the conversation about the mailing list
>> migration that was happening on the email thread called "Re: A wiki for
>> Spark (on Apache infra)"...
>> 
>> Assuming that we Apache requires us to migrate from google groups to
>> lists on Apache infra, we might consider waiting to migrating the users
>> list to apache infra until after we graduate to a TLP, so that we only
>> have to migrate it once.
>> 
>> 
>> Here's why. I assume with each list migration that requires subscribers
>> to do work, we will lose some subscribers. If we ask them to migrate to
>> an incubator user list now and then again to yet a different list when
>> 
>> 
>> we
>> graduate to a TLP (which we hope to
>> do fairly quickly), it seems like we will irritate and lose strictly
>> more subscribers.
>> 
>> 
>> This requirement to migrate infra twice as part of moving to Apache
>> 
>> 
>> seems
>> a bit hard on communities. It also seems like a requirement that will
>> 
>> 
>> go
>> away if the changes you are pushing for to the incubation process (i.e.
>> podling TLPs) actually ever happen.
>> 
>> 
>> Anyway, I see our options as:
>> 
>> 
>> 1. Migrate only the dev list now (since this is a smaller core group
>> 
>> 
>> that
>> is more likely to migrate with us) and wait to create an apache users
>> list until we graduate and migrate from the users google group then.
>> 
>> 
>> Con:
>> it's confusing to have user and dev
>> lists on different infra.
>> 
>> 2. Move the users list now, in which case we go with the migration
>> 
>> 
>> plan I
>> proposed earlier. Con: migrating users list twice = more irritating to
>> users.
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
>> <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Andy,
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> From: Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org"
>> <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:18 AM
>> To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!
>> 
>> This is great.
>> 
>> Quick question about mailing lists: Spark also has a
>> spark-users<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/spark-users>
>> google
>> group. Can we also get a users@spark.i.a.o mailing list to have
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> somewhere
>> to migrate that group? Do I need to create an infra issue for this?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OK, cool yeah I think I requested commits and dev as lists earlier, but
>> didn't request a user one. To request a new list, you go here:
>> 
>> https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq/incubator
>> 
>> 
>> Did you request a list yet? Should i?
>> 
>> (BTW sorry about the delay in responding was at a DARPA meeting all
>> week
>> in
>> DC an am just back in California now catching up on everything).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Also, we should discuss a strategy, and timeline for migrating the
>> mailing
>> lists over to the new ones.
>> 
>> As far as a strategy, here are the steps I can think of that will help
>> make
>> for a smooth transition:
>> 
>> 1. Request users list on apache infra (done)
>> 2. Pick a day/time for the switch (how about July 1, assuming
>> users@spark.i.a.o is set up by then)
>> 3. At Switch time:
>>    1. Make announcements on the dev and users mailing lists with
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> links
>>    to the new lists, instructions on how to subscribe, and a note
>> saying all
>>    conversations are moving over to that list.
>>    2. Update the website with links to the new lists
>>    3. Enable an auto responders on those lists with pointers to the
>> new
>>    apache lists
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Perfect! That's correct Andy.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) <
>> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> 
>> CC'ing dev@spark.i.a.o: our first email to the dev list! :)
>> 
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com>
>> Date: Friday, June 21, 2013 4:51 PM
>> To: jpluser <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
>> Cc: Matt Massie <massie@cs.berkeley.edu>, Reynold Xin
>> <rxin@cs.berkeley.edu>, Matei Zaharia <matei@apache.org>, Ankur Dave
>> <ankurdave@gmail.com>, Tathagata Das <tdas@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Haoyuan
>> Li
>> <haoyuan@cs.berkeley.edu>, Josh Rosen <joshrosen@cs.berkeley.edu>,
>> Shivaram Venkataraman <shivaram@eecs.berkeley.edu>, Mosharaf
>> 
>> 
>> Chowdhury
>> <mosharaf@cs.berkeley.edu>, Charles Reiss
>> 
>> 
>> <charles@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
>> Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>, Patrick Wendell
>> <pwendell@eecs.berkeley.edu>, Imran Rashid <imran@quantifind.com>,
>> 
>> 
>> Ryan
>> LeCompte <lecompte@gmail.com>, Ravi Pandya
>> <ravip@exchange.microsoft.com>,
>> Ram Sriharsha <harshars@yahoo-inc.com>, Robert Evans
>> <evans@yahoo-inc.com>, Mridul Muralidharan <mridulm@yahoo-inc.com>,
>> Thomas
>> Dudziak <tomdz@clearstorydata.com>, Mark Hamstra
>> <mark@clearstorydata.com>, Stephen Haberman
>> <stephen.haberman@gmail.com>,
>> Jason Dai <jason.dai@intel.com>, Shane Huang
>> 
>> 
>> <shannie.huang@gmail.com
>> ,
>> Andrew xia <xiajunluan@gmail.com>, Nick Pentreath
>> <nick.pentreath@gmail.com>, Sean McNamara
>> <sean.mcnamara@webtrends.com>,
>> "Ramirez, Paul M (398J)" <paul.m.ramirez@jpl.nasa.gov>, Roman
>> Shaposhnik
>> <rvs@apache.org>, Suresh Marru <smarru@apache.org>, "Hart, Andrew F
>> (398J)" <Andrew.F.Hart@jpl.nasa.gov>
>> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!
>> 
>> Thanks for driving this forward Chris, awesome as usual! =)
>> 
>> 
>> The mailing lists are ready:
>> dev@spark.incubator.apache.org
>> commits@spark.incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> private@spark.incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> You can subscribe by sending email to:
>> dev-subscribe@spark.incubator.apache.org
>> commits-subscribe@spark.incubator.apache.org
>> private-subscribe@spark.incubator.apache.org  -> This is moderated
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> and
>> only Sparks' committers, PPMC could subscribe to it.
>> 
>> 
>> Hopefully we could start communicating using the dev@ list starting
>> 
>> 
>> next
>> week.
>> 
>> 
>> For those new to ASF, welcome! =)
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> 
>> Henry
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
>> <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> 
>> Just to double check: does everyone have an Apache Individual
>> Contributor License Agreement (ICLA) on file? If you don't please
>> head over to:
>> 
>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
>> 
>> 
>> Please fill that out and then submit to
>> 
>> 
>> secretary@apache.org <mailto:secretary@apache.org>
>> 
>> I'll make sure that everyone's account gets created and that
>> karma for the Git repo is set up based on that, working with
>> infra. I or any of the other mentors can help with this too.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <Mattmann>, jpluser <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
>> Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:16 PM
>> To: jpluser <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
>> Cc: Matt Massie <massie@cs.berkeley.edu>, Reynold Xin
>> <rxin@cs.berkeley.edu>, Matei Zaharia <matei@apache.org>, Ankur
>> 
>> 
>> Dave
>> <ankurdave@gmail.com>, Tathagata Das <tdas@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
>> 
>> 
>> Haoyuan
>> Li
>> <haoyuan@cs.berkeley.edu>, Josh Rosen <joshrosen@cs.berkeley.edu>,
>> 
>> 
>> Reynold
>> Xin <rxin@cs.berkeley.edu>, Shivaram Venkataraman
>> <shivaram@eecs.berkeley.edu>, Mosharaf Chowdhury
>> <mosharaf@cs.berkeley.edu>, Charles Reiss
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <charles@eecs.berkeley.edu
>> ,
>> Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>, Patrick Wendell
>> <pwendell@eecs.berkeley.edu>, Imran Rashid <imran@quantifind.com>,
>> 
>> 
>> Ryan
>> LeCompte <lecompte@gmail.com>, Ravi Pandya
>> 
>> 
>> <ravip@exchange.microsoft.com
>> ,
>> Ram Sriharsha <harshars@yahoo-inc.com>, Robert Evans
>> <evans@yahoo-inc.com>, Mridul Muralidharan <mridulm@yahoo-inc.com>,
>> 
>> 
>> Thomas
>> Dudziak <tomdz@clearstorydata.com>, Mark Hamstra
>> <mark@clearstorydata.com>, Stephen Haberman
>> 
>> 
>> <stephen.haberman@gmail.com>,
>> Jason Dai <jason.dai@intel.com>, Shane Huang
>> 
>> 
>> <shannie.huang@gmail.com>,
>> Andrew xia <xiajunluan@gmail.com>, Nick Pentreath
>> <nick.pentreath@gmail.com>, Sean McNamara
>> 
>> 
>> <sean.mcnamara@webtrends.com>
>> Subject: Apache Spark podling: Created!
>> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> 
>> Until our mailing lists are created, will have to just reply all
>> to this list :)
>> 
>> Apache Spark (incubating) now is created! See:
>> 
>> http://s.apache.org/yRh
>> 
>> Yay! Thanks for the support in getting this started! I've gone
>> ahead and filed the requisite INFRA tasks:
>> 
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-6417
>> 
>> 
>> per:
>> 
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact#requesting-podling
>> 
>> 
>> You can follow the bootstrap process at INFRA-6417, by
>> putting yourself on the watch list for the issue. Now
>> I'll work with infra@ to get everything set up in terms of
>> mailing lists, etc, and then I'd appreciate everyone helping
>> in terms of letting folks know to migrate on the existing
>> email lists, and helping to work with me to get Git version
>> history transferred over, and to start moving the project
>> into the ASF.
>> 
>> One other thing, Matei: it would be really nice to do a
>> software grant on this:
>> 
>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt
>> 
>> 
>> From maybe AMPLab (and anyone else). Can you help take
>> the lead in getting that submitted to the Apache Secretary and
>> CC me?
>> 
>> Thanks guys! Progress :)
>> 
>> Our first Incubator PMC report is due in July. I'll prod and
>> help put it together. Until then, time to start transitioning
>> and helping to get the project moved on over.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
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> 


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