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From Patrick Wendell <pwend...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!)
Date Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:20:49 GMT
Hi Suresh,

The request here is actually to *not* use the Apache user list while in the
incubator. The issue is that we don't want to ask almost 1000 people to
migrate twice between two different lists in a short period of time. That
seems like the most confusion of all options.

If there is a requirement that eventually we get all lists over to apache,
then so be it. But having a double migration is something I'd personally
strongly object to and I feel that others in the community would also
object to this.

Let's just defer the migration of the users list until we graduate to a TLP
- this is a completely sensible option and will be easy to explain to the
broader user community.

- Patrick


On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Suresh Marru <smarru@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Andy,
>
> Its strongly advisable to have all the lists on ASF infrastructure. The
> only reason the incubators are not encouraged against users list is to keep
> the community together. But if spark already had a user base and the
> projects wants to have a user list, you should go for it. That will be way
> less confusing.
>
> If there are no objections, I can request a user list.
>
> Suresh
> On Jun 28, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > + spark-developers@googlegroups.com to loop in those who haven't
> subscribed
> > to dev@spark.i.a.o yet, (also because my emails are getting bounced by
> > Apache's spam filters).
> >
> > I wanted to respond here in the conversation about the mailing list
> > migration that was happening on the email thread called "Re: A wiki for
> > Spark (on Apache infra)"...
> >
> > Assuming that we Apache requires us to migrate from google groups to
> lists
> > on Apache infra, we might consider waiting to migrating the users list to
> > apache infra until after we graduate to a TLP, so that we only have to
> > migrate it once.
> >
> > Here's why. I assume with each list migration that requires subscribers
> to
> > do work, we will lose some subscribers. If we ask them to migrate to an
> > incubator user list now and then again to yet a different list when we
> > graduate to a TLP (which we hope to do fairly quickly), it seems like we
> > will irritate and lose strictly more subscribers.
> >
> > This requirement to migrate infra twice as part of moving to Apache
> seems a
> > bit hard on communities. It also seems like a requirement that will go
> away
> > if the changes you are pushing for to the incubation process (i.e.
> podling
> > TLPs) actually ever happen.
> >
> > Anyway, I see our options as:
> >
> > 1. Migrate only the dev list now (since this is a smaller core group that
> > is more likely to migrate with us) and wait to create an apache users
> list
> > until we graduate and migrate from the users google group then. Con: it's
> > confusing to have user and dev lists on different infra.
> > 2. Move the users list now, in which case we go with the migration plan I
> > proposed earlier. Con: migrating users list twice = more irritating to
> > users.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) <
> > chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Andy,
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >> From: Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>
> >> Reply-To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" <
> dev@spark.incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >> Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:18 AM
> >> To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org>
> >> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!
> >>
> >>> This is great.
> >>>
> >>> Quick question about mailing lists: Spark also has a
> >>> spark-users<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/spark-users>
> >>> google
> >>> group. Can we also get a users@spark.i.a.o mailing list to have
> somewhere
> >>> to migrate that group? Do I need to create an infra issue for this?
> >>
> >> OK, cool yeah I think I requested commits and dev as lists earlier, but
> >> didn't request a user one. To request a new list, you go here:
> >>
> >> https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq/incubator
> >>
> >>
> >> Did you request a list yet? Should i?
> >>
> >> (BTW sorry about the delay in responding was at a DARPA meeting all
> week in
> >> DC an am just back in California now catching up on everything).
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Also, we should discuss a strategy, and timeline for migrating the
> mailing
> >>> lists over to the new ones.
> >>>
> >>> As far as a strategy, here are the steps I can think of that will help
> >>> make
> >>> for a smooth transition:
> >>>
> >>>  1. Request users list on apache infra (done)
> >>>  2. Pick a day/time for the switch (how about July 1, assuming
> >>>  users@spark.i.a.o is set up by then)
> >>>  3. At Switch time:
> >>>     1. Make announcements on the dev and users mailing lists with links
> >>>     to the new lists, instructions on how to subscribe, and a note
> >>> saying all
> >>>     conversations are moving over to that list.
> >>>     2. Update the website with links to the new lists
> >>>     3. Enable an auto responders on those lists with pointers to the
> new
> >>>     apache lists
> >>
> >> Perfect! That's correct Andy.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> >> Senior Computer Scientist
> >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> >> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> >> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) <
> >>> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> CC'ing dev@spark.i.a.o: our first email to the dev list! :)
> >>>>
> >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> >>>> Senior Computer Scientist
> >>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> >>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> >>>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> >>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> >>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com>
> >>>> Date: Friday, June 21, 2013 4:51 PM
> >>>> To: jpluser <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
> >>>> Cc: Matt Massie <massie@cs.berkeley.edu>, Reynold Xin
> >>>> <rxin@cs.berkeley.edu>, Matei Zaharia <matei@apache.org>,
Ankur Dave
> >>>> <ankurdave@gmail.com>, Tathagata Das <tdas@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
> Haoyuan
> >>>> Li
> >>>> <haoyuan@cs.berkeley.edu>, Josh Rosen <joshrosen@cs.berkeley.edu>,
> >>>> Shivaram Venkataraman <shivaram@eecs.berkeley.edu>, Mosharaf
> Chowdhury
> >>>> <mosharaf@cs.berkeley.edu>, Charles Reiss <charles@eecs.berkeley.edu
> >,
> >>>> Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>, Patrick Wendell
> >>>> <pwendell@eecs.berkeley.edu>, Imran Rashid <imran@quantifind.com>,
> Ryan
> >>>> LeCompte <lecompte@gmail.com>, Ravi Pandya
> >>>> <ravip@exchange.microsoft.com>,
> >>>> Ram Sriharsha <harshars@yahoo-inc.com>, Robert Evans
> >>>> <evans@yahoo-inc.com>, Mridul Muralidharan <mridulm@yahoo-inc.com>,
> >>>> Thomas
> >>>> Dudziak <tomdz@clearstorydata.com>, Mark Hamstra
> >>>> <mark@clearstorydata.com>, Stephen Haberman
> >>>> <stephen.haberman@gmail.com>,
> >>>> Jason Dai <jason.dai@intel.com>, Shane Huang <shannie.huang@gmail.com
> >,
> >>>> Andrew xia <xiajunluan@gmail.com>, Nick Pentreath
> >>>> <nick.pentreath@gmail.com>, Sean McNamara <
> sean.mcnamara@webtrends.com
> >>> ,
> >>>> "Ramirez, Paul M (398J)" <paul.m.ramirez@jpl.nasa.gov>, Roman
> >> Shaposhnik
> >>>> <rvs@apache.org>, Suresh Marru <smarru@apache.org>, "Hart,
Andrew F
> >>>> (398J)" <Andrew.F.Hart@jpl.nasa.gov>
> >>>> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for driving this forward Chris, awesome as usual! =)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The mailing lists are ready:
> >>>>> dev@spark.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> commits@spark.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> private@spark.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can subscribe by sending email to:
> >>>>> dev-subscribe@spark.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> commits-subscribe@spark.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> private-subscribe@spark.incubator.apache.org  -> This is moderated
> and
> >>>>> only Sparks' committers, PPMC could subscribe to it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hopefully we could start communicating using the dev@ list starting
> >>>> next
> >>>>> week.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For those new to ASF, welcome! =)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Henry
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
> >>>>> <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just to double check: does everyone have an Apache Individual
> >>>>> Contributor License Agreement (ICLA) on file? If you don't please
> >>>>> head over to:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please fill that out and then submit to secretary@apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll make sure that everyone's account gets created and that
> >>>>> karma for the Git repo is set up based on that, working with
> >>>>> infra. I or any of the other mentors can help with this too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Chris
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> >>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
> >>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> >>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> >>>>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> >>>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> >>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: <Mattmann>, jpluser <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
> >>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:16 PM
> >>>>> To: jpluser <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
> >>>>> Cc: Matt Massie <massie@cs.berkeley.edu>, Reynold Xin
> >>>>> <rxin@cs.berkeley.edu>, Matei Zaharia <matei@apache.org>,
Ankur Dave
> >>>>> <ankurdave@gmail.com>, Tathagata Das <tdas@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
> Haoyuan
> >>>> Li
> >>>>> <haoyuan@cs.berkeley.edu>, Josh Rosen <joshrosen@cs.berkeley.edu>,
> >>>> Reynold
> >>>>> Xin <rxin@cs.berkeley.edu>, Shivaram Venkataraman
> >>>>> <shivaram@eecs.berkeley.edu>, Mosharaf Chowdhury
> >>>>> <mosharaf@cs.berkeley.edu>, Charles Reiss <charles@eecs.berkeley.edu
> >,
> >>>>> Andy Konwinski <andykonwinski@gmail.com>, Patrick Wendell
> >>>>> <pwendell@eecs.berkeley.edu>, Imran Rashid <imran@quantifind.com>,
> >> Ryan
> >>>>> LeCompte <lecompte@gmail.com>, Ravi Pandya
> >>>> <ravip@exchange.microsoft.com
> >>>>> ,
> >>>>> Ram Sriharsha <harshars@yahoo-inc.com>, Robert Evans
> >>>>> <evans@yahoo-inc.com>, Mridul Muralidharan <mridulm@yahoo-inc.com>,
> >>>> Thomas
> >>>>> Dudziak <tomdz@clearstorydata.com>, Mark Hamstra
> >>>>> <mark@clearstorydata.com>, Stephen Haberman
> >>>> <stephen.haberman@gmail.com>,
> >>>>> Jason Dai <jason.dai@intel.com>, Shane Huang <
> shannie.huang@gmail.com
> >>> ,
> >>>>> Andrew xia <xiajunluan@gmail.com>, Nick Pentreath
> >>>>> <nick.pentreath@gmail.com>, Sean McNamara <
> sean.mcnamara@webtrends.com
> >>>
> >>>>> Subject: Apache Spark podling: Created!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Until our mailing lists are created, will have to just reply
all
> >>>>>> to this list :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Apache Spark (incubating) now is created! See:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://s.apache.org/yRh
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yay! Thanks for the support in getting this started! I've gone
> >>>>>> ahead and filed the requisite INFRA tasks:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-6417
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> per:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact#requesting-podling
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You can follow the bootstrap process at INFRA-6417, by
> >>>>>> putting yourself on the watch list for the issue. Now
> >>>>>> I'll work with infra@ to get everything set up in terms of
> >>>>>> mailing lists, etc, and then I'd appreciate everyone helping
> >>>>>> in terms of letting folks know to migrate on the existing
> >>>>>> email lists, and helping to work with me to get Git version
> >>>>>> history transferred over, and to start moving the project
> >>>>>> into the ASF.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One other thing, Matei: it would be really nice to do a
> >>>>>> software grant on this:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From maybe AMPLab (and anyone else). Can you help take
> >>>>>> the lead in getting that submitted to the Apache Secretary and
> >>>>>> CC me?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks guys! Progress :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Our first Incubator PMC report is due in July. I'll prod and
> >>>>>> help put it together. Until then, time to start transitioning
> >>>>>> and helping to get the project moved on over.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> >>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
> >>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> >>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> >>>>>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> >>>>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> >>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
>
>

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