From users-return-122358-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@spamassassin.apache.org Fri Jul 10 21:23:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [207.244.88.153]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 7097D18065B for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 23:23:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 42204 invoked by uid 500); 10 Jul 2020 21:23:07 -0000 Mailing-List: contact users-help@spamassassin.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list users@spamassassin.apache.org Received: (qmail 42193 invoked by uid 99); 10 Jul 2020 21:23:06 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd2-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 21:23:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd2-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd2-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 3CDD21A470B for ; 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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 21:23:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; s=dk12062016; t=1594416184; bh=rC1wfObKOZsY732/C5wyRf1w0YEDPzavGXhj /zD8Rfw=; h=Received:From:Subject:To:References:Message-ID:Date: User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Language: Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; b=b/Yl/x5 AG+c7JXGZrVWzoRx6RH9/q26JM/8+HADo7+KSWr7otwMTfyuNoSukGNzD9DXTIWLaJZ 87WNijq5tFt8OGO6N5odzavWMZojxbFe1IJkmsgp8+wJmVMB/hAGiKioz4fYl3kxEx1 5P3IklicF1hqJt477Av53CE5R9zCdPEq0ppYtymf3hzZe/0cxA0ePtb1Kna8BjH1X90 d8QdlyuM0Yd84xxrKYClOaH1Tq9BxAkKN4FRSVpmvWQGuFcPi2LCYHyDDzjZ6tip6Nd 0fm6wsv3Y8cII9eh0cDHPQW+AFvCWm4shmCRdUvrLqpXHPmqk44Cr3hq3I6FvTkvt0w == DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk12062016; d=earthlink.net; b=V9Zw2D53QlWKgtTEXcXVtFnsrczaOAsQ19ndvuhyMnQP8hH/CxZ7r7eje/UoOZPqzVgsqgrnEeyH+EqC7DeZpoF97JwRM63+OYYcsytdtx0JTQGX4wERuXdCJMbKJwGBQAwqoN6kr/H6NXD/UJvMmWqSn/bUdwd/X3p09yAQzg5KPQnuoHs9D4UXriz1KldC3p19Ti13d1Je79nYnRplaqccVQ9uaVhaPMKd9IYhXFUiujSAi+PwWYtl86pMjzt3QiiCTdH1Z9aRkLW2OhM6Xbc/LyutRoSEZlUVWr4jY/0YAyIXrLNzVdmPaU5iY6u2b53VirMKO42o3VwkqjIgLw==; h=Received:From:Subject:To:References:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Language:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [47.140.130.237] (helo=[192.168.37.230]) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4) (envelope-from ) id 1ju0Ty-0009d5-AJ for users@spamassassin.apache.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:22:58 -0400 From: jdow Subject: Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave To: "users@spamassassin.apache.org" References: Message-ID: <0471a9e5-a15a-35cf-e981-1a24f828aecc@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:22:55 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: bb89ecdb26a8f9f24d2b10475b5711202583a408f441ae28a0adb273c98787115a8c59047406a7d0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 47.140.130.237 On 20200710 11:31:57, Bill Cole wrote: > On 10 Jul 2020, at 3:06, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > >> Whatever you do under the hood, make sure it does not affect external behaviour. >> >> On your motivation, bear in mind that *lists here contain computer addresses, >> not people, > > Which is an argument FOR changing our terminology. > >> so the reference you are trying to fix is mistaken, and changes will be >> painstaking for no reason at all. > > That misses the actual rationale for the change. > > There's a semantic collision in English where "Black" and "White" are used both > to classify people and to denote moral and/or desirability dichotomies. That > semantic collision can be removed from our code, while improving the clarity of > our naming. > > The SpamAssassin Project has a particular self-interest in attracting > contributors from a diversity of cultures, because we are always at risk of > mislabelling a pattern of letters or words as 'spammy' when in fact it is > entirely normal in a cultural context other than those of the existing > contributors to the project. Continuing to use 'black' and 'white' as indicators > of value in code and configuration directives leaves in place a minor nuisance > for some potential contributors and users who are understandably tired of being > on the bad side of this semantic collision, where the most common word for their > ethnic identity is constantly being used as a label for things which are bad, > undesirable, malfeasant, etc. The naming collision is a problem and because the > inanimate entities for which we use black and white do not in fact have any > color we can both eliminate the collision AND improve the quality of the names > we use. > > >> And the terms master and slave have nothing to do with white and black, and >> again they refer to machine processes, not people. > > This is actually almost irrelevant for SA. The main use of the master/slave > metaphor is in the automation backend for rule QA (e.g. build/jenkins/run_build) > where it merits changing simply because it is no longer consistent with the > terminology used by Jenkins. In spamd, parent/child is already the terminology > and fits the actual code better. I am still trying to figure out the rationale for forcing everybody out there with established lists of "whitelist_from_rcvd" and "blacklist_from_rcvd" to go out there and edit EVERYBODY's user_prefs or explain to users they must do this themselves. *I* can do this easily enough and call them foolist_from_rcvd and barlist_from_rcvd if needed. I am thinking if people with setups in small business offices that have to invade privacy or explain how so that user_prefs can be changed. And how about all the ancillary scripts that train spam that also have to be changed? This is something that is not broken, currently works, that some dolt is trying to fix. It's better you call that person a dolt than try to change the world and break everything. Making this change is dumb. It is counter-productive. It is even destructive. Just Say No. {^_^}