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From Paul Stead <paul.st...@zeninternet.co.uk>
Subject Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
Date Fri, 10 Jul 2020 08:19:12 GMT
Let's look at other communities and their responses:

https://github.com/rails/rails/issues/33677
https://bugs.python.org/issue34605
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-knodel-terminology-00.html
https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/10435
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=981129

I see no problem in removing/changing the suggested words with negative connotations with
alternatives - especially as the backwards compatibility (software hat on) is being built
in.

How would you explain to a 5 year old why being on a "blacklist" is seen as bad and a "whitelist"
is seen as good?

Paul

´╗┐On 10/07/2020, 08:39, "Brent Clark" <brentgclarklist@gmail.com> wrote:

    Good day Guys

    Lads you are being a tad silly.

    Various projects (and companies) are adopting and making the necessary
    change(s).

    You need to look and think bigger than the project itself. We don't want
    the SA Mailing list, the project, community to be seen as the project
    (or community ) that wont adapt to the times and be seen as insensitive.
    By not making the necessary change (i dont mean software change(s). I
    mean at oneself).

    I highly recommend, take a step back, and look at see whats happening.
    This is a good and right thing to do.

    Kevin, kudos to you for having the vision and will to drive this.
    You have my support.

    Thank you to all for your work and efforts.

    Regards
    Brent Clark



    On 2020/07/10 09:22, Axb wrote:
    > On 7/10/20 9:13 AM, Gianluca Furnarotto wrote:
    >> This is foolish, we are losing control. I have nothing else to think
    >> about ... and the next one that needs to change its name is the TV
    >> series "The Blacklist"?
    >> And the next would be to delete the word "black"?
    >
    > wanna bet there's plans to rewrite Tom Sawyer ?
    >
    >>
    >> This is my opinion.
    >> On 10 luglio 2020 a 09:05:26, Kevin A. McGrail (kmcgrail@apache.org)
    >> scritto:
    >>
    >> Gents, while this may appear to be a response to racial tensions in
    >> the US of late, you might be surprised to learn that the project has
    >> been working on this type of change for quite some time.
    >>
    >> - We start using Blocklist at least as early as 2012 when I drafted
    >> this: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SPAMASSASSIN/DnsBlocklistsInclusionPolicy
    >>
    >>
    >> - And the vote on and discussion on this change was based on a UK
    >> article
    >> https://www.zdnet.com/article/uk-ncsc-to-stop-using-whitelist-and-blacklist-due-to-racial-stereotyping/
which
    >> I brought to the PMC on 4/5.  We brought it for a vote on 5/3.
    >>
    >> So this isn't about US politics, it isn't rash and no it's not a
    >> joke.  This is about doing the right thing and getting rid of racially
    >> charged language.  I'd appreciate support in this change or at least
    >> if you can't say something nice or helpful, just keep it to yourselves.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> KAM
    >> --
    >> Kevin A. McGrail
    >> Member, Apache Software Foundation
    >> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
    >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
    >>
    >>
    >> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 2:50 AM Axb <axb.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
    >> the US problems won't be fixed with renaming B&W lists.
    >> Seriously.. you have more important issues...
    >>
    >> On 7/10/20 8:42 AM, jdow wrote:
    >>> Be sure to purge every instance of "fork" in the code because it sounds
    >>> too close to the other F..K word. Get the fork out of there.
    >>> {O,o}
    >>>        i.e are you guys being just a little stupid here?
    >>> On 20200709 21:00:37, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
    >>>> IMPORTANT NOTICE
    >>>>
    >>>> If you are running trunk, we are working on changing terms like
    >>>> whitelist to welcomelist and blacklist to blocklist.
    >>>>
    >>>> https://bz.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=7826
    >>>>
    >>>> The first test of this work is done with allowlist_to replacing
    >>>> whitelist_to
    >>>> Committed revision 1879456.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you are using trunk, there may be disruption since routines,
    >>>> plugins and rule changes will all interweave.
    >>>>
    >>>> *IF YOU ARE RUNNING TRUNK: I recommend you subscribe to the
    >>>> dev@spamassassin.apache.org <mailto:dev@spamassassin.apache.org>
    >>>> mailing list to stay abreast of the changes.*
    >>>> *
    >>>> *
    >>>> Please let me know if you have any questions!
    >>>>
    >>>> Regards,
    >>>> KAM
    >>>> --
    >>>> Kevin A. McGrail
    >>>> Member, Apache Software Foundation
    >>>> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
    >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >


--
Paul Stead
Senior Engineer
Zen Internet
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