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From Alex Salazar <a...@alexsalazar.com>
Subject Re: Issue with new contributors to the wiki
Date Fri, 11 Feb 2011 01:15:28 GMT
Craig,

Can you clarify?

We decided to allow the community at large to edit documentation and were
flexible on the CLA issue, could that content be autoexported to
shiro.apache.org so that it looked good and loaded quickly in a browser?

Alex

On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Alex Salazar <alex@alexsalazar.com> wrote:

> A fair point.
>
> So for right now, in our current environment, I still think it makes sense
> to create a separate documentation wiki to keep the adding and editing
> permissions easy. Unless of course there's a simpler solution... I always
> like simpler solutions.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Kalle Korhonen <
> kalle.o.korhonen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Alex Salazar <alex@alexsalazar.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Great insight Craig.  Do you know if there's any public discussion about
>> the
>> > move to a CMS?
>>
>> There's been plenty of chatter about it @infra.
>>
>> > So if the website is likely to move to a CMS then it might make sense to
>> > just create a separate wiki for documentation since we'll need one
>> anyways.
>> > And if the community agrees, we can have the wiki type that Craig
>> > highlighted below where documentation and useful user contributions are
>> > stored.  This could be restricted to people who register for the wiki
>> and
>> > since that's a fairly straight forward process, I feel it would be
>> something
>> > most intent contributors would be ok with.
>>
>> Maybe, but I wouldn't worry about it too much at this point. I
>> understand the reasons for moving to CMS but Confluence has proven to
>> lower barrier of entry for improved documentation and the upgrades
>> have helped performance enough to improve the state from nearly
>> catastrophic to mere drastic. Auto-exporting is just not the only to
>> to do Confluence backed sites, which is the main problem with the
>> current infrastructure. Tapestry is in the same boat and I'd assume a
>> quite a few other projects as well. Confluence itself is not going
>> away.
>>
>> Kalle
>>
>>
>> > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Craig L Russell
>> > <craig.russell@oracle.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 10, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Les Hazlewood wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  It is my understanding that only CLA contributors are allowed to
>> >>> contribute to documentation to ensure their content is compatible
>> >>> under the Apache 2.0 license.  I believe there is a 'cla' group in
>> >>> confluence that represents all CLA users, and I'm pretty sure that
>> >>> everyone in that group can edit our wiki pages.
>> >>>
>> >>> Craig, Alan, (or anyone else who might know) - do you know if we're
>> >>> allowed to have a 'completely open' space where anyone can post, even
>> >>> those who haven't submitted a CLA?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> The Foundation gives wide latitude to projects to manage their wikis as
>> >> they like, so this is really a project question.
>> >>
>> >> We certainly want to lock down pages that will be published as our web
>> >> site. [But you all should know that Confluence has a limited shelf life
>> here
>> >> as the source for web sites. The infra team has a new tool that will
>> become
>> >> the standard tool for projects' web sites. They call it CMS.]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> My assumption is that it would be ok to do this.  For example, Jira
>> >>> end-users aren't always CLA-cleared, but the ASF considers all issue
>> >>> comments and patches to be 'contributions under ASL 2.0'.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Well, not exactly. There is a tick box on uploaded files that says
>> >>
>> >> o Grant license to ASF for inclusion in ASF works (as per theApache
>> License
>> >> ยง5)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>  Can't that
>> >>> be the same for wiki edits?  It would certainly reduce the barrier to
>> >>> entry for those who legitimately want to help.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> So there are three kinds of wikis that I know of here at Apache:
>> >> wikis that contain the web site contents (should be restricted to
>> project
>> >> committers)
>> >> wikis that have documentation and other useful user contributions
>> (should
>> >> be restricted to "known" users)
>> >> wikis that have random comments from users (no policy)
>> >>
>> >> Just be aware that if a wiki is not restricted, spammers can attack it
>> and
>> >> the community needs to be constantly monitoring it for abuse.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> We could always get clarification from legal@ if necessary...
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Please, no.
>> >>
>> >> Craig
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Les
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Alex Salazar <alex@alexsalazar.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> So I did a quick test on found that there doesn't seem to be an
easy
>> way
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> someone new to quickly edit a wiki page and I think its worth
>> discussing
>> >>>> how
>> >>>> we should handle this.  The main reason I see this as a problem
is
>> around
>> >>>> documentation.  If the community at large can't touch the
>> documentation
>> >>>> then
>> >>>> it's left solely to the few committers to create and improve.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Here's the process I went through.
>> >>>> 1. Cleared out all my cookies to remove my authorized identity
>> >>>> 2. Navigated to the Developer Resources page
>> >>>> 3. Click on the Confluence Wiki Space link
>> >>>> 4. When prompted I registered as a new user to confluence
>> >>>> 5. Navigated to the Apache Shiro project
>> >>>> 6. Tried to Edit a page
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Basically, no Edit or Add link shows up to me.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I checked other Apache projects to see if there was a standard and
>> found
>> >>>> that I COULD add and edit pages for many of the other projects.
>>  There's
>> >>>> seems to be two different ways other projects handle free form
>> >>>> community editing
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 1. What Cassandra does, where anyone can contribute to any part
of
>> the
>> >>>> site.
>> >>>>  BTW they don't use Confluence so if you test this you'll have to
>> create
>> >>>> an
>> >>>> account on their own wiki.
>> >>>> 2. What Felix does, where they have two Confluence spaces.  One
>> locked
>> >>>> down
>> >>>> like ours and one complete open for full wiki style contribution.
>>  The
>> >>>> open
>> >>>> space seems mostly focused on documentation.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think the Felix route is probably best.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thoughts?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Alex Salazar
>> >>>> 571-276-7777
>> >>>> alex@alexsalazar.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >> Craig L Russell
>> >> Architect, Oracle
>> >> http://db.apache.org/jdo
>> >> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@oracle.com
>> >> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>

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