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From Berin Lautenbach <>
Subject Re: [Fwd: [VOTE] Put Apache Juice into dormant status]
Date Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:57:44 GMT
I'll leave this another 24 hours, and then if nobody objects I'll +1 the 
vote to hibernate.  If we want to resurrect the idea when someone has 
the bandwidth we can.


Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Note that this won't kill JuiCE, just hibernate it until such time as 
> someone comes along to reopen it, or fork it in another location.
> Cheers,
>     Berin
> Werner Dittmann wrote:
>> Berin, all,
>> just a few days ago I got an e-mail from OSSI (this organization
>> prepared and drove the FIPS certification for openSSL) asking
>> us if somebody would can improve JuiCE to have it FIPS certified
>> as well. As far as I understood JuICE is often used by US
>> administration because it is a Java JCE compliant interface
>> to openSSL. Pls have a look to the latest e-mail conversation.
>> If anbbody with some know-how would like to volounteer pls get
>> in contace with Steve ( and myself.
>> This I would ask to keep JuICE until this issue is sorted out.
>> Regards,
>> Werner
>> <quote>
>> Steve,
>> unfortunatly I'm not able to do this completely on my own. JuiCE and 
>> other
>> Open source acivities are just a hobby of mine and I do it in parallel to
>> my normal job. I would appreciate if somebody else can take over the main
>> activities.
>> Of course I would be happy to support the person who takes the burden
>> to enable JuiCE to be FIPS compliant. Coordination could be done via
>> e-mail or VoIP calls, depending on the time zone of the participating
>> persons  :-)  .
>> And yes: <> is the latest
>> version of the source.
>> Regards,
>> Werner
>> Steve Marquess wrote:
>>>> Steve Marquess wrote:
>>>>>> Werner:
>>>>>> One of the activities that occupies much of our time here at OSSI
>>>>>> matching up the needs of commercial and government entities with
>>>>>> appropriate resources in the open source community.  Usually the

>>>>>> sponsor
>>>>>>  requirements are pretty clear cut ("obtain FIPS 140-2 validation
>>>>>> X", "add support for platform Y to product Z", etc.).
>>>>>> This situation is a little different in that the prospective 
>>>>>> sponsor, a
>>>>>> large U.S. government research laboratory, appears to just want 
>>>>>> JuiCE to
>>>>>> be a viable actively maintained product.  Apparently they want to

>>>>>> use it
>>>>>> extensively but are concerned about the lack of activity and 
>>>>>> unpolished
>>>>>> state.
>>>>>> Here specifically is what my contact there asked for:  "Besides 
>>>>>> work on
>>>>>> supporting FIPS mode, I'd like to see money put towards more
>>>>>> documentation, tutorials, and a more collaborative project home 
>>>>>> page to
>>>>>> attract wider adoption."
>>>>>> The only actual functional enhancement they're asking for, FIPS mode
>>>>>> support, is relatively simple, as most a few day's work.  This 
>>>>>> contact
>>>>>> went on to ask me to write a Statement of Work ("SOW", a 
>>>>>> description of
>>>>>> tasks to be performed for specified payment) which would be the basis
>>>>>> for a contract.
>>>>>> If you're interested, here's how we can work it.  If you can give
>>>>>> some details along the following lines...
>>>>>>     1) Cost to implement FIPS mode support (see
>>>>>> for details,

>>>>>> it can
>>>>>> be as simple as adding a FIPS_mode_set() call.
>>>>>>     2) Some elaboration on the "documentation, tutorials" 
>>>>>> objective, and
>>>>>> what you and/or your collaborators would expect to be paid for same;
>>>>>>     3) Brief description of what the "project home page" would look
>>>>>> like; ok to just reference an existing project as a model, and 
>>>>>> cost to
>>>>>> implement;
>>>>>>     4) Any other enhancements that have been contemplated that 
>>>>>> would be
>>>>>> of interest to the general end user community, and cost for same
>>>>>> ...then I will prepare a formal proposal for our prospective 
>>>>>> sponsor and
>>>>>> see what funding they will commit to.
>>>>>> Note we can host the project web site on OSSI hardware, if 
>>>>>> appropriate,
>>>>>> but are not in a position to generate or maintain much content.
>>>>>> For funding think in terms of thousands of dollars (or euros), not
>>>>>> hundreds.  I believe that if they feel they are receiving value that
>>>>>> they would be willing to fund this effort on a long term basis to
>>>>>> tune of thousands or even tens of thousands per year.  We won't 
>>>>>> know for
>>>>>> sure until they are presented with a formal contract, of course,
>>>>>> there will undoubtedly be some back-and-forth negotiation.
>>>>>> As many project contributors or collaborators can contribute as
>>>>>> appropriate.  We prefer to work with a projects original contributors
>>>>>> and their circle of collaborators where possible.  We'll want a 
>>>>>> single
>>>>>> point of contact with OSSI, but end results that please the 
>>>>>> sponsor are
>>>>>> all that really matters.
>>>>>> Speaking of which, I don't want to step on any toes at Apache.  If

>>>>>> we do
>>>>>> succeed in securing financial support for JuiCE we would not want
>>>>>> disturb the relationship with the Apache Incubator.  Is there 
>>>>>> anyone at
>>>>>> Apache I should sound out for permission/participation?  OSSI has
>>>>>> had the opportunity to work with the ASF yet, but we expect to in
>>>>>> near future for other initiatives so I don't want to offend anyone

>>>>>> there.
>>>>>> Oh, I take it that

>>>>>> is the
>>>>>> latest and greatest source, and that there is no JuiCE project 
>>>>>> page per se?
>>>> Werner, all:
>>>> We're being nagged again by the sponsor.  They seem to be really
>>>> interested in reviving the JuiCE project.  Any interest in working with
>>>> us to develop a proposal to secure the funding they have indicated 
>>>> would
>>>> be forthcoming?
>>>> If none of the original maintainers are able to participate we can
>>>> engage Java developers elsewhere, but we'd prefer to work with the
>>>> original team if at all possible.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> -Steve M.
>> </quote>
>> Berin Lautenbach wrote:
>>> If we want to keep this going - we need to call it out now.
>>> Cheers,
>>>     Berin
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: [VOTE] Put Apache Juice into dormant status
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:12:13 -0400
>>> From: Noel J. Bergman <>
>>> Reply-To:,    
>>> <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Nothing appears to be happening, and there is no one around to provide
>>> status or anything else.
>>>     --- Noel
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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