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From Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID>
Subject Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [Discuss] Start release process 0.9.3
Date Thu, 20 Sep 2018 07:44:18 GMT


On 9/19/18, 11:49 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <carlosrovira@apache.org> wrote:

    Hi Alex,
    
    what Zend-AMF issue you refer? can you post the link to that issue?
    thanks

https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@royale.apache.org
    
    PD: about your preoccupation, we'll have issues for many months to come. I
    see each day in Jewel as I go here and there fixing or completing issues I
    find, so I think is ok release with that issues so people can "play with
    the toy".
 
   <snip>

    So, my opinion is that, if someone what to release, we should not wait for
    anything...we have many things to add, solve, fix, that one or two will not
    make a difference for me. As I said, maybe wait for release, could be worse
    in terms of potential users we can loose in that time.
    
Of course there will be lots of issues to fix.  But some seem bigger than others, and IMO,
make the difference between whether Royale leaves the impression of being a product or a toy.
 If your app won't run because the dependencies aren't right, or AMF doesn't work, will they
help fix it, or wait, or go somewhere else?    

If you want to release now, then you have to promise to delay what you were planning to work
on to handle new customer issues.  Because that's what always happens to me.   By waiting
until Alina hits an important milestone helps keep a user we know and want to make successful.

-Alex
    
    
    
    
    El jue., 20 sept. 2018 a las 2:47, Alex Harui (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid>)
    escribió:
    
    > The key question for me is what Carlos wrote:  " I'm trying to fix and get
    > things as most usable as possible in
    >     Jewel to avoid many changes post release"
    >
    > I always wonder if it helps or hurts to draw attention to the release when
    > we know there's good chance someone is going to hit a known bug.  I'd like
    > to see if we can fix the issues brought up by some new users.  Such as:
    >
    > 1) https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Fissues%2F297%23issuecomment-422870607&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757292613&amp;sdata=54aFEiUJ%2FRTCiBooZaJADt9CvYamAcvzNyWY1wP0%2Fjg%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >
    > 2) the Zend-AMF issue.  A more robust AMF might be worth the wait.
    >
    > Those of you who want to release soon should promise to investigate any
    > dependency or AMF issues brought up by new users.  When we release with
    > issues like these, not only does it cost me the time to be the RM, but also
    > seems to cost me the time to investigate and respond to the issues brought
    > up afterwards.
    >
    > My 2 cents,
    > -Alex
    >
    > On 9/19/18, 2:59 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <carlosrovira@apache.org> wrote:
    >
    >     Hi,
    >
    >     I certainly can position clearly: Community is waiting and we are
    > getting
    >     momentum, each day we get 1-2 new people in twitter following, so it
    > seems
    >     we are getting some traction. If we release now, those interested in
    > Royale
    >     would finally start to get its hands dirty and try things, releasing
    > later
    >     could make we loose that people interested and potential community. In
    > the
    >     other hand, I'm trying to fix and get things as most usable as
    > possible in
    >     Jewel to avoid many changes post release. For example today make some
    >     needed changes to jewel layouts that make more robust now, and
    > although we
    >     make changes later, many of them will be more internally (or at least I
    >     want to get the most stable API I can so things are as most organized
    > and
    >     well named as possible).
    >
    >     If someone could continue the effort will be very good, but if none of
    > us
    >     can do, it I think nothing can be done but continue working hard to get
    >     things done.
    >
    >     just my 2
    >
    >     Carlos
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >     El mié., 19 sept. 2018 a las 22:57, Harbs (<harbs.lists@gmail.com>)
    >     escribió:
    >
    >     > Jewel is another reason.
    >     >
    >     > Carlos wrote a lot of blog posts which can’t be run until we release.
    >     >
    >     > (Plus lots of little things that were fixed…)
    >     >
    >     > > On Sep 19, 2018, at 11:26 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <
    > piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com>
    >     > wrote:
    >     > >
    >     > > I personally express important reason. Releasing can help community
    >     > around
    >     > > VSCode and Moonshine.
    >     > >
    >     > > Piotr
    >     > >
    >     > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 9:41 PM Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid
    > >
    >     > wrote:
    >     > >
    >     > >> What do you see as the important reasons?  I know the Apache
    > mantra is
    >     > to
    >     > >> release early and often, but if it were up to me, we would release
    >     > after we
    >     > >> hit some interesting milestone, like getting Alina's app to
    > compile
    >     > >> completely, or someone else says they are ready to go to
    > production and
    >     > >> need a released version of Royale.  There are some bugs blocking
    > users
    >     > that
    >     > >> I would rather get done before releasing.
    >     > >>
    >     > >> My 2 cents,
    >     > >> -Alex
    >     > >>
    >     > >> On 9/19/18, 10:34 AM, "Harbs" <harbs.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
    >     > >>
    >     > >>    I’m happy to try and be a release manager, but I don’t have
    > time for
    >     > >> at least a month. I think it’s pretty important to get this
    > release out
    >     > >> sooner rather than later.
    >     > >>
    >     > >>    If you can help Piotr finish this release, I’ll try to do
the
    > 0.9.5
    >     > >> release.
    >     > >>
    >     > >>    Thanks,
    >     > >>    Harbs
    >     > >>
    >     > >>> On Sep 19, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.INVALID
    > >
    >     > >> wrote:
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>> Hi Piotr,
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>> In my previous email, I was trying to say that you don't need
to
    > run
    >     > >> update.versions because I already did.
    >     > >>> In that and even earlier emails, we discussed running
    > make_branches
    >     > >> twice.  IMO, you are getting the right results by running
    > make_branches.
    >     > >> Given the current state of the repo, running make_branches once
    > will set
    >     > >> the develop branch to 0.9.4-SNAPSHOT and the release branch to
    > 0.9.3.
    >     > >> That's because that's how Maven works. The current poms in
    > develop are
    >     > set
    >     > >> to 0.9.3-SNAPSHOT.  Maven removes the "SNAPSHOT" in the release
    > branch
    >     > and
    >     > >> bumps the version in the develop branch.
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>> I think you can just run make_branches again and it should
    > create a
    >     > >> release branch with 0.9.4 and bump the develop branch to
    > 0.9.5-SNAPSHOT.
    >     > >> That would be what we want.
    >     > >>> If you want me to help more, I will take the time to do so.
 I
    > can:
    >     > >>> -Get the repos to the point where the current scripts should
    > "just
    >     > >> work".
    >     > >>> -Make sure make_branches works and is complete.
    >     > >>> -Do all of the other steps.
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>> I still think it is important that someone else besides me
can
    > run
    >     > >> the scripts and generate a release.  So I would prefer to just
    > get the
    >     > >> repos ready so that you can try running the scripts.  If there
are
    >     > >> important things you've learned that other RMs will need to know,
    > please
    >     > >> try to capture them in the wiki document.
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>> @Carlos, I have spent a lot of time trying to automate releasing.
    >     > >> As Piotr said, skipping a version wasn't planned for and I hope
    > it won't
    >     > >> ever happen again.  Unless you've actually looked at the scripts
    > and
    >     > read
    >     > >> the wiki document and tried it, saying you think there are too
    > many
    >     > manual
    >     > >> steps is not only wrong, but discouraging to those who have put
    > effort
    >     > into
    >     > >> it.  If you really think it needs to be better automated, then
do
    > it
    >     > >> yourself.  Don’t expect others to do things for you when you
make
    >     > negative
    >     > >> comments about their work.  I have other things I want to work
on
    > other
    >     > >> than release automation.  Release automation is only going to be
    > "good
    >     > >> enough" and always in need of improvement.  We've only done two
    > releases
    >     > >> and we are still debugging the scripts.   Join the effort instead
    > of
    >     > >> complaining about it.
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>> Thanks,
    >     > >>> -Alex
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>> On 9/19/18, 7:39 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <carlosrovira@apache.org
    >     > >> <mailto:carlosrovira@apache.org>> wrote:
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>   Hi Piotr,
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>   sorry to hear that, I think we're out of resources. I'm
    >     > >> concentrating in
    >     > >>>   make Jewel as stable as possible since in few days we can
    > start a
    >     > >> new
    >     > >>>   project with Royale-Jewel, so I still don't know how I'll
be
    >     > >> doing to
    >     > >>>   continuer Jewel, make that project and continue with my other
    >     > >> tasks that my
    >     > >>>   position require.
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>   Maybe others could take this opportunity to make this happen
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>   Thanks
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>   Carlos
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>   El mié., 19 sept. 2018 a las 13:58, Piotr Zarzycki (<
    >     > >>>   piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com>) escribió:
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>> Btw. The process is quite automatic, but skipping the version
    > wasn't
    >     > >>>> something considered before.
    >     > >>>>
    >     > >>>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 1:31 PM Piotr Zarzycki <
    >     > >> piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com>
    >     > >>>> wrote:
    >     > >>>>
    >     > >>>>> Carlos,
    >     > >>>>>
    >     > >>>>> Unfortunately I'm giving up doing that. I have spent
on this
    > too
    >     > >> much
    >     > >>>> time
    >     > >>>>> and money. Someone else can continue from my point.
    >     > >>>>>
    >     > >>>>> Dev branch is setup to 0.9.4-SNAPSHOT. Even with detailed
    >     > >> instruction
    >     > >>>> from
    >     > >>>>> Alex I don't know what to do next.
    >     > >>>>>
    >     > >>>>> Details are in previous email.
    >     > >>>>>
    >     > >>>>> Good Luck!
    >     > >>>>> Piotr
    >     > >>>>>
    >     > >>>>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 1:15 PM Carlos Rovira <
    >     > >> carlosrovira@apache.org>
    >     > >>>>> wrote:
    >     > >>>>>
    >     > >>>>>> Hi Piotr,
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>> I encourage you and Alex to try to refine more
the process so
    > we
    >     > >> can
    >     > >>>>>> release more easily. I think right now the process
is very
    >     > >> dependent of
    >     > >>>>>> many manual tasks, and that impact in all: huge
effort to do
    > the
    >     > >>>> release,
    >     > >>>>>> many time involved, impossible to reproduce in
next release,..
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>> I think this effort you're doing could be maybe
the most
    >     > >> important right
    >     > >>>>>> now in Royale.
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>> Maybe you could ask for some help to other Apache
teams, maybe
    >     > >> infra
    >     > >>>>>> people?, or maven people?
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>> Thanks for taking over this
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>> Carlos
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>> El mié., 19 sept. 2018 a las 11:16, Olaf Krueger
(<
    >     > >> mail@olafkrueger.net
    >     > >>>>> )
    >     > >>>>>> escribió:
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>>> All of that things are complex because
we need to skip one
    >     > >>>> version...
    >     > >>>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>> Would it be possible to create something like
a fake release
    >     > >> v0.9.3?
    >     > >>>>>>> Just to satisfy all those tools and automatism?
    >     > >>>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>> Olaf
    >     > >>>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>> --
    >     > >>>>>>> Sent from:
    >     > >>
    >     >
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757302618&amp;sdata=ujz6zOXpKAHfbqW6j8pC5TN7cGY0BczTfCWOqQ4k6mQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >     > >> <
    >     > >>
    >     >
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757302618&amp;sdata=ujz6zOXpKAHfbqW6j8pC5TN7cGY0BczTfCWOqQ4k6mQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>> --
    >     > >>>>>> Carlos Rovira
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>
    >     >
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757302618&amp;sdata=10K2rbXEkF8xNGLJdODgekNr%2FOrZHWe02ibI618nnhs%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >     > >> <
    >     > >>
    >     >
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757302618&amp;sdata=10K2rbXEkF8xNGLJdODgekNr%2FOrZHWe02ibI618nnhs%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>>>>
    >     > >>>>>
    >     > >>>>
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>>   --
    >     > >>>   Carlos Rovira
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>
    >     >
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757302618&amp;sdata=10K2rbXEkF8xNGLJdODgekNr%2FOrZHWe02ibI618nnhs%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >     > >> <
    >     > >>
    >     >
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757302618&amp;sdata=10K2rbXEkF8xNGLJdODgekNr%2FOrZHWe02ibI618nnhs%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >     > >>>
    >     > >>
    >     > >>
    >     > >>
    >     >
    >     >
    >
    >     --
    >     Carlos Rovira
    >
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757302618&amp;sdata=10K2rbXEkF8xNGLJdODgekNr%2FOrZHWe02ibI618nnhs%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >
    >
    >
    
    -- 
    Carlos Rovira
    https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C7b170880a70a4b8d340c08d61ec539b7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636730229757302618&amp;sdata=10K2rbXEkF8xNGLJdODgekNr%2FOrZHWe02ibI618nnhs%3D&amp;reserved=0
    

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