From dev-return-3279-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@royale.apache.org Tue Mar 6 19:34:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F17C180652 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2018 19:34:57 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 89613 invoked by uid 500); 6 Mar 2018 18:34:56 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@royale.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@royale.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@royale.apache.org Received: (qmail 89588 invoked by uid 99); 6 Mar 2018 18:34:55 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd2-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 06 Mar 2018 18:34:55 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd2-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd2-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 7D3281A0F5D for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2018 18:34:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd2-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.229 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.229 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=2, KAM_INFOUSMEBIZ=0.75, KAM_LOTSOFHASH=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd2-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd2-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.9]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dyr5uZU422Ww for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2018 18:34:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot0-f173.google.com (mail-ot0-f173.google.com [74.125.82.173]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 8A0D05F475 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2018 18:34:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot0-f173.google.com with SMTP id l12so19282040otj.7 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2018 10:34:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=1JUO12W+faKTWtH2PsGVayP5KCgWfbLfp5sNsd5vh3E=; b=C7gEHrUsPaQH5f/Oh9qB6QRDe3v4txZZkbtOiys3wS/97bYZC6o2zoidNs0JJALvMn oX7rqJOLtAz4H60LJ9QPfe77TbKxoOPLAyddbZntffXSMY6Ivh57wDF9/n763gLWS92K pxjHFtjpgfpjxrPEH69EqSJoc4P62A9iX7dp17O0Y3VvTI3v7Su1ynDqKVc5S26M6Epv V7pUsRvaIKNzIakFOgMAlGWTmyY98ZCA/vxDR/BVDi+ti4wF3UR1o9fK+3Gyrqs7XDE1 THjdIMNFCtOGp8U7u6YA1D/QsX8rCDJFDE2KhnPZMSpLtuUhgQKQDx7NbqdnhOcYxBa9 +ibA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1JUO12W+faKTWtH2PsGVayP5KCgWfbLfp5sNsd5vh3E=; b=MziaJnCFCoLy8GdQ95CEFoTrFBnktctHGZW3bV+xO3gvgh+l48jyAwZ9cCJpgzSi7t gxqN+2Id1OukW2iwuer3TxI00FdjmonfVX2sqYYoS4aOtLRTuk/i9YwG4dpXYtocrd6R kJoBNI4siQg9INia/NgDl12mMzFISAK3gJvduLuP7UG+7Buw10KzMiybWDzk9/mg7jLV 9aySYza87p4DEsRc3mmJy4AdwVN2oF1Z6w2U1QT5c8SyU6YouYbyq4/CuQoV4lQ4lRXI P8KBaexIQ+SGgiz6lXb86FFkhb0yHnM4zTdUTwGl7rdCriv9VDO3hE1wkHnylJ/Zha4+ p1BQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7FcxKEr9kEbjfWFDoRyMtHbp6D9srlu5aKTMlfnUfbNhVSnsqwZ cBe5vjC63zQ8Cqsy9Fw17+l+aDy830IxU7tG2oYu9Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELs3qxKToc6f3Ec2XImAak9Kxj9yjNoFrFiV4Iv+xHc7lrwKaqBhKCEGW10OWRxEBnrxzKDCxhWH46Xetu7NKYo= X-Received: by 10.157.36.81 with SMTP id p75mr12995919ota.318.1520361290577; Tue, 06 Mar 2018 10:34:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: carlos.rovira@gmail.com Received: by 10.157.113.137 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Mar 2018 10:34:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <30737C4B-2078-41F0-B44A-6B6C52DB3B0B@gmail.com> <4C767AD0-D2F5-41F9-86A5-7829B64989E4@gmail.com> <15B95CAC-44ED-4F5C-952F-AB6E91588B2B@me.com> <14E861F3-BC24-4FC7-82EB-2BB82BAC7FE7@classsoftware.com> <98DF5A5E-5C63-430B-B084-1B7EA5B3DB06@gmail.com> <4ABC89A6-512E-4185-BEFC-B4827F9F561C@gmail.com> <41F60C1B-298C-4F7E-B51F-3063857AA4D4@gmail.com> From: Carlos Rovira Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 19:34:30 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: K0lhOZTt0dDFX327Q4UtObsBgOc Message-ID: Subject: Re: Page linked to from license page no longer exists To: dev@royale.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d10b6a7bfb20566c2b21b" --001a113d10b6a7bfb20566c2b21b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think this is the same that happens with MDL examples. There's two options: 1) fix the problem. In this case seems easy since is only one file 2) remove the example to Royale Extras. If there's no time, this is the best option I'm with Alex that is better to solve the problem before start a release process My 2ctns... C. 2018-03-06 18:29 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui : > So you want to ship with the controversial situation we have now? > > I'm not going to start a release unless we are going to get enough votes > and not get mired down in further debating of this situation. Also, if > there is a ruling that requires changes after I start the release then I > will have wasted time. > > IMO, safest plans are to pull the example, or switch to a different set o= f > data points that is already Public Domain. > > What do others think? > -Alex > > On 3/6/18, 8:42 AM, "Harbs" wrote: > > >I figured I=E2=80=99d wait a couple of weeks. Like I said: I don=E2=80= =99t think it > >should hold up a release if we don=E2=80=99t get an answer immediately. > > > > > >> On Mar 6, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Alex Harui > wrote: > >> > >> It is March 6. How many days should we wait? Especially given that t= he > >> current VP Legal as resigned and no replacement has been announced yet= ? > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> -Alex > >> > >> On 3/6/18, 1:03 AM, "Harbs" wrote: > >> > >>> The path data appears to be from the CC-BY derivative and not the > >>>public > >>> domain original. > >>> > >>> I do think we need to either get clarification of replace the path da= ta > >>> (and possibly SVG file). I=E2=80=99m happy doing it myself. > >>> > >>> I have opened a JIRA for an official ruling on the topic. It feels li= ke > >>> it=E2=80=99s easier to just replace the data than get the ruling, but= I think > >>> this is something which *should* have a ruling. If it=E2=80=99s OK to= reuse SVG > >>> data in Cat B images, folks shouldn=E2=80=99t have to jump through ho= ops just > >>> because there=E2=80=99s nothing clear on the topic. > >>> > >>> I do think it=E2=80=99s a relatively minor issue and should be classi= fied as a > >>> bug. It=E2=80=99s not something that should hold up a release if it c= an=E2=80=99t be > >>> resolved before the next release. I just created an issue on the topi= c. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Harbs > >>> > >>>> On Mar 6, 2018, at 7:56 AM, Alex Harui > >>>>wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Om, > >>>> > >>>> Comments inline. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 3/5/18, 3:09 PM, "omuppi1@gmail.com on > >>>> behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala" > >>>> on behalf of > >>>> bigosmallm@gmail.com > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Alex Harui > > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Om, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I am not able to follow your logic. I think I've read your full > >>>>>>email > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> have looked at the links. It appears you are trying to say that t= he > >>>>>> data > >>>>>> points we are using came from [1], but to me, [1] seems clearly > >>>>>>under > >>>>>> GNU > >>>>>> Document and CC-BY-SA. The act of removing the state names from t= he > >>>>>> data > >>>>>> in [2] made it a derivative work, and it appears that the author o= f > >>>>>> [1] > >>>>>> says that work is not under Public Domain. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> The SVG asset itself is licensed as such. We are not using the svg > >>>>> asset > >>>>> anywhere. We are only using the map data which came from some othe= r > >>>>> source. > >>>>> > >>>>> Map data is not copyrightable. > >>>>> > >>>>> Please read the section under "The map wasn=E2=80=99t eligible for = copyright > >>>>>in > >>>>> the > >>>>> first place" here: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3D > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pu > >>>>>bl > >>>>> ic > >>>>> > >>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.p > >>>>>ub > >>>>> lic> > >>>>> domainsherpa.com > >>>>> > >>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fdomai > >>>>>ns > >>>>> > >>>>>herpa.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com% > 7Caa8f41c3bb32452833fb0 > >>>>>8d > >>>>> > >>>>>583411c9b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de > cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636559238029785 > >>>>>55 > >>>>> > >>>>>6&sdata=3DZu9S5xPRzulIqUlZ%2FgPEGVs0yjZNiNcPuMvB% > 2FfirN8E%3D&reserved=3D0> > >>>>>%2 > >>>>> Fpublic-domain-maps.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.c > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>om%7Cdb3e0b405fdc43cf995108d582ee4e3b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de > ce > >>>>>e1 > >>>>> %7 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>C0%7C0%7C636558882380334796&sdata=3DlhmEgOxJKLHmRSz5JAwCLCuAI0Iqy3 > cn7QQu > >>>>>%2 > >>>>> FI > >>>>> aaOfQ%3D&reserved=3D0 > >>>>> > >>>>> " If the components of the map are =E2=80=9Centirely obvious=E2=80= =9D the map will > >>>>>not > >>>>> be > >>>>> copyrightable. For example, an outline map of the state of Texas, o= r > >>>>> one > >>>>> of > >>>>> the US showing the state boundaries is *not* copyrightable. (Not > >>>>> creative.) > >>>>> Ditto maps that use standard cartographic conventions, like a surve= y > >>>>> map. > >>>>> (Not original.) " > >>>>> > >>>> Right after the passage you quote, it says this: > >>>> > >>>> "This is could be a tough call in certain cases > >>>> (I mean, come on ... =E2=80=9Centirely obvious=E2=80=9D?) but > >>>> that's the what the courts have said. Just keep > >>>> in mind ... what you think is entirely obvious, > >>>> the mapmaker might contest as creative." > >>>> > >>>> Let's see what other PMC members think. To me, the quote I pasted > >>>> indicates that this is still a controversial area. The definition o= f > >>>> "map > >>>> data", AIUI, has to be tied to facts. So, GIS coordinates, or any > >>>>other > >>>> lat/lng fact that is used to create a map is not copyrightable, and > >>>>any > >>>> map image produced by the US Government is in the public domain. Bu= t > >>>>I > >>>> believe there is a gray area around the digitizing of maps. The > >>>>number > >>>> of > >>>> points chosen which create the level of detail of a map could be > >>>>argued > >>>> to > >>>> be a form of expression as well as the line-weights chosen for the > >>>> lines. > >>>> > >>>> Also, the provenance/history of how the SVG file you chose became > >>>>public > >>>> domain is murky. I was unable to determine where the data points ca= me > >>>> from. > >>>> > >>>> To me, that's one reason why folks on wikimedia are claiming copyrig= ht > >>>> and > >>>> different licensing on their maps that are essentially digitized fro= m > >>>> public domain US Government maps. The fact that the data points for > >>>>the > >>>> states are different in different SVG files also leads me to believe > >>>>the > >>>> data points are not facts. I think the safest and least controversi= al > >>>> option is for us to use a map that is in the public domain already. > >>>> This > >>>> map [1] seems to have a much simpler public domain provenance. Then= I > >>>> think there is less surface for nitpickers to attack. > >>>> > >>>> If other PMC members want to go with the current data you have in th= e > >>>> files then I'll defer to them (and you). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> -Alex > >>>> > >>>> [1] > >>>> > >>>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3D > https%3A%2F%2Fcommon > >>>>s. > >>>> > >>>>wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ABlank_US_map_borders. > svg&data=3D02%7C01%7Ca > >>>>ha > >>>> > >>>>rui%40adobe.com%7Caa8f41c3bb32452833fb08d58341 > 1c9b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794 > >>>>ae > >>>> > >>>>d2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636559238029785556&sdata=3D > uquU6h9UaHwKQRsd4V6%2BH > >>>>Pu > >>>> MK6cvP8U5Vw7O5WRxCHI%3D&reserved=3D0 > >>>> > >>>> https%3A%2F%2Fcommo > >>>>ns > >>>> > >>>>.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ABlank_US_map_borders. > svg&data=3D02%7C01%7C > >>>>ah > >>>> > >>>>arui%40adobe.com%7Caa8f41c3bb32452833fb08d58341 > 1c9b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b3443879 > >>>>4a > >>>> > >>>>ed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636559238029785556&sdata=3D > uquU6h9UaHwKQRsd4V6%2B > >>>>HP > >>>> uMK6cvP8U5Vw7O5WRxCHI%3D&reserved=3D0> > >> > > > > --=20 Carlos Rovira http://about.me/carlosrovira --001a113d10b6a7bfb20566c2b21b--