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From Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID>
Subject Re: How can we pass colors to a CSS?
Date Fri, 09 Mar 2018 18:01:17 GMT
Hi Carlos,

I am about to work on the 0.9.2 release.  I will try to fix the CSS issues
in the compiler while the vote is pending.

I still believe you can use themes to set the colors.  And that will work
not just in Maven and Ant, but also on the command-line and IDEs.  I am
still looking for a concrete example of why that does not work.  I will
dig into your branches after I get the RC out for vote.

-Alex

On 3/9/18, 4:19 AM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos Rovira"
<carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of carlosrovira@apache.org> wrote:

>Hi Piotr,
>
>2018-03-09 12:40 GMT+01:00 Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com>:
>
>> Carlos,
>>
>> I see following two things:
>>
>> 1) There is something in css which breaks build and you cannot uses,
>> because compiler have some issue with it - yes?
>>
>
>sometimes is breaking the build, others not output what I write in css
>(for
>example adding like "Unexpected value found" or something like that, don't
>remember the exact wording)
>
>
>
>> 2) You would like to add user possibility to change components easily -
>> Your solution is SASS, because #1.
>>
>>
>I want the user can use a theme with the colors he/she want to use
>With SASS I can put the colors in a variables and the user can change it.
>Or the next thing to look for are "palettes" that is something like MDL
>does.
>In this way user change colors or palettes and then use SASS to get final
>CSS.
>This process can be separate from the rest of royale, like the process to
>make a PNG
>since user can use the one we provide, or create another with Photoshop,
>Sketch, Affinity...
>
>
>
>> Am I understand in general correctly this thread ?
>>
>>
>This thread should have priorities. As I see are:
>
>1) Need to solve various problems with royale compiler processing of CSS
>(gradients, alphas,...)
>
>this is crucial since the rest of points depends on this.
>
>2) How we can make users introduce a config via ANT or MAVEN to choose
>what
>colors they want in final app
>
>in this point I propose that user introduces properties for colors in ANT
>or MAVEN and then the compiler retrieves that when process CSS to make
>string substitution
>
>3) What we can improve to make theme development more easier.
>
>in this part is how near we can get to what SASS gives us, this can be of
>less importance and since is more related at how the final CSS is created,
>we can decide to separate from royale project (although, having this will
>make our project to have even more sense, since as Om said, nobody has a
>tool that makes what SASS does and even integrates with the code , in this
>case AS3/MXML).
>
>For point 3 I have SASS *separated* maven workflow, that doesn't need to
>be
>part of the rest of royale libs and themes. I use this for convenience to
>develop Jewel more easy and quick.
>
>One final thought. We are a front end technology. Front-end relies heavily
>in visuals. It seems in royale community, there's no much preoccupation in
>this part. I think I'm alone with this since the rest of contributors are
>more balanced towards framework code, compiler,...but not on UX (styles,
>visuals, colors, animations...). I want to transmit here that all this is
>very important since front end developers choose in part with his "eyes",
>and then see other things. What I'm trying to contribute is fix the visual
>part so people coming, can see "hey! this looks good!, lets see what's
>behind..." and then we love the rest of the technology.
>There's other kind of users that only needs an easy dev tool to make an
>app, and they don't care if it looks good or not, while it works. My
>thinking is that nowadays this kind of user are very few compared with the
>other one.
>I don't care to be the only one centered in visuals...it's ok for me, but
>I
>want to remark the importance of this in the overall target we all pursue
>and that I need some help in the parts where I can't reach (compiler
>mainly, infrastructure,...)
>
>Hope that clears this more
>
>Carlos
>
>
>
>
>> Thanks, Piotr
>>
>>
>> 2018-03-09 12:28 GMT+01:00 Carlos Rovira <carlosrovira@apache.org>:
>>
>> > Hi Alex,
>> >
>> > 2018-03-08 23:06 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:
>> >
>> > > Hi Carlos,
>> > >
>> > > I don't doubt that SASS is powerful and useful, otherwise it
>>wouldn't
>> be
>> > > popular.  What I am asking you to consider is that every decision
>>you
>> > make
>> > > affects a lot of people and we only have a relatively small team.
>> >
>> >
>> > Maybe you missed what I wrote at the beginning of this discussion. Use
>> SASS
>> > doesn't means anything for the rest of the project.
>> > Let's compare with a PSD vs an img. Imagine I author a PSD to create a
>> > button image background. Then I can put only the final PNG
>> > in our framework to use it by a css and optionaly put the PSD I used
>>to
>> > author the final PNG in some source folder so people can use it.
>> >
>> > This is the same. SASS is the PSD and CSS is the PNG. The important
>>thing
>> > here's that I'm using SASS to be more productive,
>> > and I'm producing a final "defaults.css". I can remove all SASS files
>>and
>> > configurations and work it on my own, but I think people would want it
>> > In the other hand, people that don't want to use are not obligated,
>>since
>> > they can use the final "defaults.css" as its template to create his
>>own
>> > theme.
>> > For me is just a matter of convenience since I can code the visuals
>>in a
>> > more organized way, just like I were coding AS3 vs JS. We use AS3 and
>>not
>> > CSS for the same reason people use SASS over CSS. It's more easy, can
>> catch
>> > errors, and you are more safe of what you're doing.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >   So the
>> > > first question I have is what is there about the current Royale
>>feature
>> > > set that makes it truly impossible or impractical to implement a
>> > CSS-based
>> > > theme and generate flavors of it with other CSS files?  If you push
>>for
>> > > SASS that means we have to impact all of our non-Maven users by
>>asking
>> > > them to integrate SASS somehow, or do more work on the compiler.  We
>> > can't
>> > > just make everybody use Maven and SASS.  That won't help us gain
>>users
>> > and
>> > > successful migrators.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I tell you in various emails this days. My problems are more in the
>>post
>> > processing of CSS by the royale compiler.
>> > There's still sume rules that we don't allow, and that is limiting me
>> since
>> > I need to workaround.
>> > I thought about solving it in the compiler, but after trying it, I
>> continue
>> > to be not able to solve it myself.
>> >
>> > In the next "step", the main problem is how to make colors
>>configurable
>> by
>> > the final user.
>> > The way other frameworks do is the following [1]. They have all
>> > combinations of css colors in a final minified file.
>> >
>> > We can do this better by creating the palettes and creating the CSS on
>> the
>> > fly as people compile the Royale App.
>> > The input will be 2-3 colors passed by ANT or Maven, the output for
>>jewel
>> > should be for example
>> > "royale-jewel-${primary}-${secondary}-${accent}.min.css"
>> > or if we create one with gradients then six vars ${primary1},
>> ${primary2},
>> > ${secondary1}, ${secondary2},...and so on
>> >
>> > But please, if we do this, it should not be planned as a few hacks
>>here
>> and
>> > there. For me this should be part of something
>> > like the targets rework you did some months ago. Where you need to
>> > introduce it in all its complexity.
>> >
>> > This is the same, and what we get from this is a huge reward since
>>we'll
>> > have a great theme support that will people start to consider
>> > Royale in real apps since we can provide them with a UI set that is
>> usable
>> > out of the box and match colors in their brands. They can choose how
>> their
>> > apps
>> > looks from the beginning. Right now they can since we are providing
>>basic
>> > theme, or MDL, that makes them be stuck in the MDL namespace and what
>> > things
>> > works in that external UI set.
>> >
>> >
>> > > That's why I want you to provide a concrete example or two of what
>>you
>> > > can't do with the current feature set.  And that doesn't mean by
>>using
>> > > MDL-style string substitutions or SASS-syntax.  In the end, you
>>want to
>> > > start with a set of CSS files and have the final CSS to look like
>> > > something.  Royale has a way of doing that.  Why does that way not
>>work
>> > > for you?
>> >
>> >
>> > the "partials" (for taking SASS naming) is working in royale, so we
>>have
>> > already one thing.
>> > That's ok, we need more on this, but we need now, or do you want I
>>cross
>> my
>> > arms and wait
>> > for this to be implemented? what should I do? I need to focus on
>>Sketch,
>> on
>> > prototyping, on design, on coding visuals
>> > that fills my time each day on Royale. I can't do much creating this
>> > features in royale compiler, since I read that code and don't know
>>what
>> to
>> > do
>> > even with your Kindly explanations what I thank you for providing me,
>> since
>> > is time you're investing for me.
>> >
>> >
>> > > Sure there might be better ways, like all of the CSS features
>> > > you listed below, but why do our themes need to use them?  Also
>> consider
>> > > that the more advanced CSS you use, the more work there will be to
>> create
>> > > a SWF equivalent.
>> > >
>> >
>> > The final css is the same you will make by hand, so if SVGs are not
>> > supported in SWF, this will no make a difference.
>> > If linear gradients are not supported as well, again is the
>>same...again
>> > think in the PSD/PNG paralellims with SASS/CSS,
>> > if SWF was not supporting PNG, the problem will not be that I author
>>it
>> > with Photoshop, is that we need Royale to make
>> > it happen (support PNG in SWF)
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I think it will help the community more to understand the trade-offs
>> and
>> > > avoid using the latest, coolest thing so we don't have to expend as
>> much
>> > > energy getting it to work for non-Maven users.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > We the things I'm doing, you don't need to wire SASS in ANT to see my
>> work.
>> > As I'm uploading generated defaults.css, you have the final css file,
>> > ant a ANT build will retrieve this as in the rest of projects.
>> >
>> > Hope this clarifies all this more and we could go to the real target
>>that
>> > is getting a better visuals in a UI set that I'm sure will
>> > provide us more engagement for people out there.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Carlos
>> >
>> >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > -Alex
>> >
>> >
>> >  [1] 
>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdnjs.co
>>m%2Flibraries%2Fmaterial-design-lite&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C
>>b89b18e7a3b8444b0ebf08d585b81ffe%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7
>>C0%7C636561948219452668&sdata=vre2s3Z4HuE8j7v4UBLyovYjFoPJIy8gGbp2o5J3WW4
>>%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>
>> Patreon: 
>>*https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pat
>>reon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cb89b18e7a3b8
>>444b0ebf08d585b81ffe%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C6365619
>>48219452668&sdata=m1gonUiYPMWgS8rwpZYA%2FpDPRMxCi9FzP3J0qNgKdZo%3D&reserv
>>ed=0
>> 
>><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pat
>>reon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cb89b18e7a3b8
>>444b0ebf08d585b81ffe%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C6365619
>>48219452668&sdata=m1gonUiYPMWgS8rwpZYA%2FpDPRMxCi9FzP3J0qNgKdZo%3D&reserv
>>ed=0>*
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Carlos Rovira
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2
>Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cb89b18e7a3b8444b0ebf08d5
>85b81ffe%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636561948219452668&s
>data=0AWcm1ZIKLmbOLGrxAiaBo%2FO6XdSmHChaez4kyskBsA%3D&reserved=0

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