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From Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Page linked to from license page no longer exists
Date Tue, 06 Mar 2018 16:42:42 GMT
I figured I’d wait a couple of weeks. Like I said: I don’t think it should hold up a release
if we don’t get an answer immediately.


> On Mar 6, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> It is March 6.  How many days should we wait?  Especially given that the
> current VP Legal as resigned and no replacement has been announced yet?
> 
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
> 
> On 3/6/18, 1:03 AM, "Harbs" <harbs.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> The path data appears to be from the CC-BY derivative and not the public
>> domain original.
>> 
>> I do think we need to either get clarification of replace the path data
>> (and possibly SVG file). I’m happy doing it myself.
>> 
>> I have opened a JIRA for an official ruling on the topic. It feels like
>> it’s easier to just replace the data than get the ruling, but I think
>> this is something which *should* have a ruling. If it’s OK to reuse SVG
>> data in Cat B images, folks shouldn’t have to jump through hoops just
>> because there’s nothing clear on the topic.
>> 
>> I do think it’s a relatively minor issue and should be classified as a
>> bug. It’s not something that should hold up a release if it can’t be
>> resolved before the next release. I just created an issue on the topic.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Mar 6, 2018, at 7:56 AM, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Om,
>>> 
>>> Comments inline.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 3/5/18, 3:09 PM, "omuppi1@gmail.com <mailto:omuppi1@gmail.com> on
>>> behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>>> <omuppi1@gmail.com <mailto:omuppi1@gmail.com> on behalf of
>>> bigosmallm@gmail.com <mailto:bigosmallm@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Om,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am not able to follow your logic.  I think I've read your full email
>>>>> and
>>>>> have looked at the links.  It appears you are trying to say that the
>>>>> data
>>>>> points we are using came from [1], but to me, [1] seems clearly under
>>>>> GNU
>>>>> Document and CC-BY-SA.  The act of removing the state names from the
>>>>> data
>>>>> in [2] made it a derivative work, and it appears that the author of
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> says that work is not under Public Domain.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The SVG asset itself is licensed as such.  We are not using the svg
>>>> asset
>>>> anywhere.  We are only using the map data which came from some other
>>>> source.
>>>> 
>>>> Map data is not copyrightable.
>>>> 
>>>> Please read the section under "The map wasn’t eligible for copyright in
>>>> the
>>>> first place" here:
>>>> 
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.publ
>>>> ic 
>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pub
>>>> lic>
>>>> domainsherpa.com
>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdomains
>>>> herpa.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caa8f41c3bb32452833fb08d
>>>> 583411c9b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C63655923802978555
>>>> 6&sdata=Zu9S5xPRzulIqUlZ%2FgPEGVs0yjZNiNcPuMvB%2FfirN8E%3D&reserved=0>%2
>>>> Fpublic-domain-maps.html&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.c
>>>> 
>>>> om%7Cdb3e0b405fdc43cf995108d582ee4e3b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1
>>>> %7
>>>> 
>>>> C0%7C0%7C636558882380334796&sdata=lhmEgOxJKLHmRSz5JAwCLCuAI0Iqy3cn7QQu%2
>>>> FI
>>>> aaOfQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 
>>>> " If the components of the map are “entirely obvious” the map will not
>>>> be
>>>> copyrightable. For example, an outline map of the state of Texas, or
>>>> one
>>>> of
>>>> the US showing the state boundaries is *not* copyrightable. (Not
>>>> creative.)
>>>> Ditto maps that use standard cartographic conventions, like a survey
>>>> map.
>>>> (Not original.) "
>>>> 
>>> Right after the passage you quote, it says this:
>>> 
>>>   "This is could be a tough call in certain cases
>>>   (I mean, come on ... “entirely obvious”?) but
>>>   that's the what the courts have said. Just keep
>>>   in mind ... what you think is entirely obvious,
>>>   the mapmaker might contest as creative."
>>> 
>>> Let's see what other PMC members think.  To me, the quote I pasted
>>> indicates that this is still a controversial area.  The definition of
>>> "map
>>> data", AIUI, has to be tied to facts.  So, GIS coordinates, or any other
>>> lat/lng fact that is used to create a map is not copyrightable, and any
>>> map image produced by the US Government is in the public domain.  But I
>>> believe there is a gray area around the digitizing of maps.  The number
>>> of
>>> points chosen which create the level of detail of a map could be argued
>>> to
>>> be a form of expression as well as the line-weights chosen for the
>>> lines.
>>> 
>>> Also, the provenance/history of how the SVG file you chose became public
>>> domain is murky.  I was unable to determine where the data points came
>>> from.
>>> 
>>> To me, that's one reason why folks on wikimedia are claiming copyright
>>> and
>>> different licensing on their maps that are essentially digitized from
>>> public domain US Government maps.  The fact that the data points for the
>>> states are different in different SVG files also leads me to believe the
>>> data points are not facts.  I think the safest and least controversial
>>> option is for us to use a map that is in the public domain already.
>>> This
>>> map [1] seems to have a much simpler public domain provenance.  Then I
>>> think there is less surface for nitpickers to attack.
>>> 
>>> If other PMC members want to go with the current data you have in the
>>> files then I'll defer to them (and you).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Alex
>>> 
>>> [1] 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.
>>> wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ABlank_US_map_borders.svg&data=02%7C01%7Caha
>>> rui%40adobe.com%7Caa8f41c3bb32452833fb08d583411c9b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794ae
>>> d2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636559238029785556&sdata=uquU6h9UaHwKQRsd4V6%2BHPu
>>> MK6cvP8U5Vw7O5WRxCHI%3D&reserved=0
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons
>>> .wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ABlank_US_map_borders.svg&data=02%7C01%7Cah
>>> arui%40adobe.com%7Caa8f41c3bb32452833fb08d583411c9b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794a
>>> ed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636559238029785556&sdata=uquU6h9UaHwKQRsd4V6%2BHP
>>> uMK6cvP8U5Vw7O5WRxCHI%3D&reserved=0>
> 


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