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From Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Removing the * selector
Date Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:38:57 GMT
Ahh that is what you mean! :) Good idea. I will try in the next week play
with that! :)

Thanks Harbs for clarification :)
Piotr

2018-02-22 18:59 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:

> Yep.  It would fun to see what APIs Moonshine itself uses.
>
> -Alex
>
> On 2/22/18, 9:48 AM, "Gabe Harbs" <harbs.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I think Alex was suggesting to run it on the Moonshine *codebase*.
> >
> >> On Feb 22, 2018, at 7:39 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >> Yep. That's what I suggested to Alina, because she was started to use
> >> Moonshine. I think it's doable also through the VSCode. In the end it is
> >> all about passing that argument as additional compiler options.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2018-02-22 18:36 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:
> >>
> >>> Isn't Moonshine also a SWF-based app?  Could try it there too.
> >>>
> >>> -Alex
> >>>
> >>> On 2/22/18, 9:31 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Carlos,
> >>>>
> >>>> It would be great to get that report from your application!
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks, Piotr
> >>>>
> >>>> 2018-02-22 18:17 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Your point of view is valid, but it might depend on the kind of
> >>>>> application.  Some might have 100's of views to port, others might
> >>>>>only
> >>>>> have 2 or 3 views and a million lines of business logic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In another thread I mentioned the -api-report option I added.  It
> >>>>>would
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> interesting for folks to try getting API reports on their Flex apps
> >>>>>so
> >>>>> we
> >>>>> can see what folks are using so we can use that in making decisions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My 2 cents,
> >>>>> -Alex
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 2/22/18, 8:39 AM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos
> >>>>> Rovira"
> >>>>> <carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of carlosrovira@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Without know nothing about the solution I want to share a though:
I
> >>>>> think
> >>>>>> the implementation of all the things related to visuals (and
css is
> >>>>> one of
> >>>>>> them) is completely different in Royale to what it was in flex,
so
> >>>>> maybe
> >>>>>> we
> >>>>>> should not be worried that CSS is not following main flex rules.
> >>>>>> For me UX in royale must be done from scratch, if someone is
> >>>>> migrating, we
> >>>>>> can only provide some basic *structure* similar to what Flex
was.
> >>>>>>But
> >>>>>> that's only some kind of guide and could mean around 5-10% of
what
> >>>>>>they
> >>>>>> must to migrate. So this is the opposite to things more related
to
> >>>>>> "business" (like the ArrayCollection disscussion we made some
days
> >>>>> ago),
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> this case, there's very few to save from a flex codebase point
of
> >>>>>>view,
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> CSS is one of the things I don't expect to reuse if I come from
flex
> >>>>>> codebase.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2018-02-22 17:27 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, it might be a migration issue in the sense that you
could
> >>>>>>>use a
> >>>>>>> selector called "global" in Flex and it would become the
default
> >>>>> value
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> styles.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Flex and Royale CSS has non-compliant CSS in it like "cffHinting"
> >>>>>>>or
> >>>>>>> "focusSkin" in Flex or "IStatesImpl" in Royale.  Non-compliant
> >>>>>>>styles
> >>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>> not emitted to the final .css file since the browser has
no use for
> >>>>>>> them,
> >>>>>>> but are kept in a data structure used by ValuesManager.
 If you use
> >>>>>>> "global" for non-compliant style properties, it will work
in Royale
> >>>>> like
> >>>>>>> it did in Flex, but if you use "global" to try to set the
> >>>>>>>fontFamily
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> Gothic everywhere in your app it will not work in Royale
as it did
> >>>>>>>in
> >>>>>>> Flex.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Until this change we renamed "global" in the final CSS to
"*" so it
> >>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>> have a more global effect, but I took that out because I'm
not sure
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>> "*" is the equivalent since "*" actually has precedence
over Type
> >>>>>>> Selectors.  I'm not quite sure how to create the true equivalent
of
> >>>>> Flex
> >>>>>>> global styles.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We could rename what I'm currently calling "global" in Royale
to
> >>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>> else like "royale" and go back to renaming "global" to "*",
but I
> >>>>> think
> >>>>>>> that will end up with complaints.  I think it might be right
for
> >>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>> migration docs to mention this and offer alternatives like
moving
> >>>>> some
> >>>>>>> styles from global to "*" if they understand the impact
of doing
> >>>>>>>so.
> >>>>>>> Also, everything is currently a child of the Application
so setting
> >>>>>>> Application styles should have a global effect, but I think
both
> >>>>>>>will
> >>>>>>> still override type selectors.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My 2 cents,
> >>>>>>> -Alex
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 2/22/18, 7:44 AM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf
of Carlos
> >>>>>>> Rovira"
> >>>>>>> <carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of carlosrovira@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Andrew, this is new for Apache Royale since is how
to deal with
> >>>>> CSS
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> how browsers manage it.
> >>>>>>>> So maybe not much relation with Flex in this case
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Carlos
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 13:27 GMT+01:00 Andrew Wetmore <cottage14@gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Is this a migration issue for Flex apps, or is this
specific to
> >>>>>>> Royale?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 5:29 AM, Alex Harui
> >>>>>>> <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/18, 1:12 AM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com
on behalf of
> >>>>> Carlos
> >>>>>>>>> Rovira"
> >>>>>>>>>> <carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of carlosrovira@apache.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I think this is a very good change since
I had many problems
> >>>>> with
> >>>>>>> MDL
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> have to use the exclusion on CSS to make
it work properly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> If I understand ok, I should see fonts at
16px, that I think is
> >>>>>>>>> nowadays
> >>>>>>>>>>> the standard for "normal" text, so good.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> What I don't understand is what basic should
making any change.
> >>>>>>> From
> >>>>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>>>>>> point of view basic is as the name says...basic,
and I don't
> >>>>> like
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>>>>> fonts 12px.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I only expect in basic to see the wiring
of beads like views,
> >>>>>>> models
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> controllers. But I think almost no CSS rules
should be there,
> >>>>>>> hence
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> basic point at the lowest level, where users
only have the
> >>>>> basics
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>> royale provides without any customization.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> That's how I see it
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I think I agree.  That's sort of where I was
heading by
> >>>>> creating a
> >>>>>>>>>> separate theme in basic.css.  Basic.css is separate
from the
> >>>>>>>>> defaults.css
> >>>>>>>>>> in Basic.swc.  Maybe we should give basic.css
a different name.
> >>>>>>> The
> >>>>>>>>> goal
> >>>>>>>>>> of basic.css was to give our examples and anybody
else building
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> smallest app on Basic a more Flex-like look.
 I just don't think
> >>>>>>> Serif
> >>>>>>>>>> 16px looks good.  It is true that more traditional
CSS visual
> >>>>>>> styles
> >>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>> be moved from the Basic defaults.css to whatever
we call
> >>>>> basic.css.
> >>>>>>>>>> Someone else can do that work once we see how
this change
> >>>>> affects
> >>>>>>>>> Vivid
> >>>>>>>>>> and other themes like MDL.  I'm not sure if
every component set
> >>>>>>> should
> >>>>>>>>>> have a separate theme file or SWC as well. 
Or if there are a
> >>>>> few
> >>>>>>>>> visual
> >>>>>>>>>> styles in that should remain in Basic's defaults.css
so that
> >>>>> other
> >>>>>>>>>> component sets don't have to repeat that information.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -Alex
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 2:43 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui
> >>>>> <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Royale has been using the universal
selector for a while now
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> set
> >>>>>>>>>>>> defaults for Royale apps.  However,
that caused problems with
> >>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>>>>>>> third-party CSS.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I just pushed changes to the compiler
and framework so that
> >>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>>>> use
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the * selector.  Instead we will be
using the * selector
> >>>>>>> properly
> >>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>>>>> provided by the users CSS and we are
using a special selector
> >>>>>>>>> called
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "global" as the "browser defaults" and
the final selector in
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> lookup
> >>>>>>>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>>>>> manage.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This should eliminate the need for other
component sets to
> >>>>> try
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> exclude
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the defaults.css from Basic.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> You may find that text that once looked
nice now is 16px
> >>>>> Serif.
> >>>>>>>>> That's
> >>>>>>>>>>>> because we are no longer using inheritance
to set the
> >>>>>>> font-family
> >>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>>>>>> components.  The browsers do not seem
to deploy a default
> >>>>>>>>> font-family
> >>>>>>>>> so
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the SWF side shouldn't either.  IOW,
if you just put some
> >>>>> plain
> >>>>>>>>> text
> >>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>>>> HTML file it shows up as 16px Serif.
 If you see 16px Serif,
> >>>>>>> let us
> >>>>>>>>> know
> >>>>>>>>>>>> which component is showing that by default.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> However, we don't really want to make
16px Serif the default
> >>>>>>> font
> >>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>> our
> >>>>>>>>>>>> examples, so I created a CSS-based theme
in
> >>>>>>> themes/Basic/basic.css
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> put
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 12px Sans-Serif as the default for a
bunch of type selectors
> >>>>>>> since
> >>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> was what our examples were using.  I
did not create a default
> >>>>>>> font
> >>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Application as that would become the
default for other
> >>>>> component
> >>>>>>>>> sets
> >>>>>>>>>>>> mixed into a Royale app unless otherwise
specified.
> >>>>> Component
> >>>>>>> sets
> >>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>>> different looks can use a different
theme and get different
> >>>>>>>>> defaults.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So, in sum, without any theme, we want
the SWF side to look
> >>>>> like
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> browser and have 16px Serif.  But the
royale-config.xml will
> >>>>>>>>> specify
> >>>>>>>>>>>> themes/Basic/basic.css as the default
theme giving the
> >>>>> examples
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> most
> >>>>>>>>>>>> people's unstyled apps a more Flex-like
look by using
> >>>>>>> sans-serif.
> >>>>>>>>> More
> >>>>>>>>>>>> type selectors may need to be added
to
> >>>>> themes/Basic/basic.css in
> >>>>>>>>> order
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> get sans serif everywhere by default
without putting
> >>>>>>> font-family on
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Application.  That way, when you switch
to another theme,
> >>>>> like
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> Vivid
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that Carlos is working on, there should
be fewer, if any,
> >>>>>>> default
> >>>>>>>>> values
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that screw up the other theme.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Alex
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2
> >>>>>>>>>>> Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%
> >>>>>>>>>> 7C5807444789504e2f3d8c08d5
> >>>>>>>>>>> 79d46f81%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> >>>>>>>>>> 7C636548875665083262&s
> >>>>>>>>>>> data=MjSAbOXuFPTLeafKWOYuDDbc8oMn4YbsZ6pzwxYA6pg%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Andrew Wetmore
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14
> >>>>>>>>> .blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%
> >>>>>>> 7Cc2d5d47c21084996345c
> >>>>>>>>> 08d57a0b4647%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> >>>>>>> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636549111204032
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>767&sdata=5DOBst1ytHpKOuKlMicXtNr8AfJuWi
> EbXpk%2BmvUspLw%3D&reserved=
> >>>>>>>0
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2
> >>>>>>>> Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%
> >>>>>>> 7Cc2d5d47c21084996345c08d5
> >>>>>>>> 7a0b4647%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> >>>>>>> 7C636549111204032767&s
> >>>>>>>> data=y64W72CO7WgyBNYCVAKpczGJaisl3vwuCu00%2FWx1sVA%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2
> >>>>>> Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%
> >>>>> 7C16c51d3899b54f56d1fb08d5
> >>>>>> 7a12f462%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> >>>>> 7C636549144184428545&s
> >>>>>> data=9atjDHHuhnuufVBQPZuUzM8vf30vf9Q0CP81XX8bXkg%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Piotr Zarzycki
> >>>>
> >>>> Patreon:
> >>>> *https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patr
> >>>> eon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%
> >>> 7C11a52efaa6da4f
> >>>> e5a00c08d57a1a1c94%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> >>> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C6365491749
> >>>> 23040063&sdata=7%2F1v%2FiuUD7JOZJD87HPTozZD972I8SLrn
> >>> q5bGZRkKbc%3D&reserved
> >>>> =0
> >>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patr
> >>>> eon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%
> >>> 7C11a52efaa6da4f
> >>>> e5a00c08d57a1a1c94%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> >>> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C6365491749
> >>>> 23040063&sdata=7%2F1v%2FiuUD7JOZJD87HPTozZD972I8SLrn
> >>> q5bGZRkKbc%3D&reserved
> >>>> =0>*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Piotr Zarzycki
> >>
> >> Patreon:
> >>*https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pat
> >>reon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com
> %7Caaee947095b2
> >>46b08a6908d57a1c7616%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C6365491
> >>85020033040&sdata=Tlqm35Kweb5G0sbkEWDvd21YZ7saje
> K8P4u9c%2B5luSQ%3D&reserv
> >>ed=0
> >>
> >><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pat
> >>reon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com
> %7Caaee947095b2
> >>46b08a6908d57a1c7616%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C6365491
> >>85020033040&sdata=Tlqm35Kweb5G0sbkEWDvd21YZ7saje
> K8P4u9c%2B5luSQ%3D&reserv
> >>ed=0>*
> >
>
>


-- 

Piotr Zarzycki

Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*

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