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From Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Working on UI Controls styling
Date Tue, 07 Nov 2017 16:37:31 GMT
Hi Harbs,

That looks like good starting point, but this last approach where we for
example generate UIDs for every component. This UID at the end will have to
end up as an id in HTML or compiler will have to bind together css with
that uid.

The first approach where you have created couple of css classes, what will
happen if we in our code do something like that:
element.classList.add("bug");
element.classList.add("bug:hover");

I didn't check above approach, but if you have this code ready could you
try. Maybe that will be the solution.

Thanks, Piotr


2017-11-07 12:24 GMT+01:00 Harbs <harbs.lists@gmail.com>:

> Some food for thought:
>
> I created a custom component for “buttons” which allow simple skinning
> using image files. It works like this:
> https://paste.apache.org/tc8f <https://paste.apache.org/tc8f>
>
> Specifying different states can be done using the following css:
> .bug
> {
>         background-image: url ('assets/up/report-bug.png');
> }
> .bug:hover{
>         background-image: url ('assets/over/report-bug.png');
> }
> .bug:active{
>         background-image: url ('assets/down/report-bug.png');
> }
> .bug:disabled{
>         background-image: url ('assets/disabled/report-bug.png');
> }
>
> It works well, but the problem with this approach is that it requires
> multiple css entries for every button.
>
> Using it is done like this:
>         <comp:PanelButton id="bugButton"
>                            enabled="{bugReportEnabled}" width="72"
> height="82"
>                            x="19" y="283"
>                            click="reportBug()" className="bug"/>
>
> I wanted to allow the following:
>
>         <comp:PanelButton id="bugButton"
>                            enabled="{bugReportEnabled}" width="72"
> height="82"
>                            x="19" y="283"
>                            click="reportBug()" className="bug"
>                            image="assets/up/report-bug.png"
>                            hoverImage="assets/over/report-bug.png"
>                            activeImage="assets/down/report-bug.png"
>                            disabledImage="assets/
> disabled/report-bug.png"/>
>
> However, this is harder than you’d expect in HTML. Apparently there’s no
> way to set pseudo-styles using inline css.[1][2].
>
> There are a couple of interesting work-arounds. One is using mouse
> events.[3]
> Another is by creating CSS on the fly.[4] The answer assumes that the css
> is created on the server, but using the ideas I proposed in the
> ThemeManager class, that can be done on the client dynamically.
>
> The challenge with the last approach would be in guaranteeing the css is
> unique to the images (or individual component). One option on that front
> would be to generate UIDs when the component is instantiated. A
> consideration is garbage-collecting CSS selectors when components might be
> removed.
>
> I hope these ideas are helpful.
>
> Harbs
>
> [1]https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5293280/css-pseudo-
> classes-with-inline-styles <https://stackoverflow.com/
> questions/5293280/css-pseudo-classes-with-inline-styles>
> [2]https://stackoverflow.com/questions/986618/is-it-
> possible-to-create-inline-pseudo-styles <https://stackoverflow.com/
> questions/986618/is-it-possible-to-create-inline-pseudo-styles>
> [3]https://stackoverflow.com/a/5293426/5475183 <
> https://stackoverflow.com/a/5293426/5475183>
> [4]https://stackoverflow.com/a/39712777/5475183 <
> https://stackoverflow.com/a/39712777/5475183>
>
> > On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Carlos Rovira <carlosrovira@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Harbs,
> >
> > If we  go with Basic as seems everybody suggest, I think we should not
> mix
> > with Express. We can "copy" some Express knowledge, but not make it
> > dependent, to avoid having a Frankenstein
> > Basic is the core, and from there we have Express and the new stylizable
> set
> >
> > 2017-11-05 22:01 GMT+01:00 Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com>:
> >
> >> I was thinking about that and new component set is the approach which we
> >> should try, but we need to base on something. My first thoughts was
> that it
> >> should be Basic, cause I bet that once we start create style for each
> >> component we will end up with some issue or we would like to create some
> >> additional features to those controls in order to make that theme
> happen.
> >> It leads my thought then farther let's say that we will start work in
> >> following way:
> >> 1) Basic is our base
> >> 2) Carlos will prepare some appearance for component
> >> 3) We are starting to work on that, but it's end up that our component
> need
> >> some additional feature, which is do not suits for Basic
> >> 4) We are adds that feature to Express and use in that place Express
> >> component.
> >>
> >> It ends up that our component theme will be mix of Express and Basic
> >>
> >> Second approach is - Forget about Express, use Basic only and add to
> Theme
> >> set features if needed. Express will be always separate set, FAT and it
> >> will be responsibility for user if he would like to style it. - If our
> >> implementation will be in Theme enough robust, user should be able to
> use
> >> in his application Express with some styles from Theme set.
> >>
> >> Thoughts ?
> >> Piotr
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-11-05 11:21 GMT+01:00 Harbs <harbs.lists@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>> I would suggest starting a new component set with a fresh slate called
> >>> Themed (or something like that).
> >>>
> >>> The Themed component set should give priority to style-ablitity and
> ease
> >>> of use over just about every other consideration. I think of Express as
> >>> more of a middle-of the road approach to make things easier. A Themed
> set
> >>> would be more of a replacement for mx and spark.
> >>>
> >>> Yes. Definitely make a clear list of supported components. It’s
> probably
> >>> more important to have quality of components rather than quantity. A
> few
> >>> well constructed components is better than a lot of half-baked ones.
> More
> >>> components could always be added.
> >>>
> >>> I’m very glad to hear that Angelo is working with you. That’s great
> news!
> >>>
> >>> Harbs
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 5, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> >>> carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ok Alex,
> >>>>
> >>>> so if I understand correctly, you mean that we create our own set,
> with
> >>>> Basic as base right?
> >>>> but we should go with Express? It's great that we could create many
> >> sets
> >>> in
> >>>> Royale, and I think the Basic use
> >>>> you commented is very licit and didn't think about that. But we must
> >>> think
> >>>> in some *main* set, maybe is Express
> >>>> and that I want to focus this effort for that concrete set.
> >>>>
> >>>> I mean, one important thing here is that we all agree in support a
> >>> concrete
> >>>> list of UI controls and components
> >>>> I plan to make a discuss thread for this, since the theme feature will
> >>>> affect only to that controls, and if we want to include a new one
> >>>> we should vote to include it, since it implies to include in design,
> >>>> implementation and all themes that we want to support.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think I'll create a discuss thread with this an other things we
> >> talked
> >>>> about since this is a huge effort and is important for all the
> >>>> people that will be involved to work around things discussed, voted
> and
> >>>> approved by all.
> >>>> We need to be synced here or we'll end working too much for somehitng
> >>> that
> >>>> does not get to be useful in the end. I want to ensure this before
> >>>> to start investing a huge amount of time.
> >>>>
> >>>> As well I was contacted by Angelo and talk about all this. He's very
> >>>> passionate as well on this and we'll seeing how we can combine our
> >>> efforts
> >>>> and if someone
> >>>> more wants to join us.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll be writing the discussion thread in order to plan the effort in
> >>> short.
> >>>> Stay tuned :)
> >>>>
> >>>> 2017-11-05 8:29 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Carlos,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think we're pretty much in agreement.  Regarding Basic, for me, I
> >> have
> >>>>> created plenty of web pages with non-styleable checkboxes.  I don't
> >> care
> >>>>> that the checkbox looks different on different browsers.  I just want
> >>> the
> >>>>> smallest simplest output.  Just like taking an HTML editor and
> >> slapping
> >>> in
> >>>>> a few tags and calling it done.  Would that be production?  Sure, if
> >> I'm
> >>>>> just want someone to check a box before enabling a download button.
> >>> IOW,
> >>>>> it would be for internal customers only.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, IMO, a Skinnable/Themeable component set would be something
> >> else.  I
> >>>>> think you will need that extra Span for a Checkbox.  IMO, we should
> >> just
> >>>>> go and build these new components.  And when we get it mostly
> working,
> >>> we
> >>>>> can compare against Basic and see if we want to parameterize the
> views
> >>> in
> >>>>> the low-level Basic components or not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My 2 cents,
> >>>>> -Alex
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/4/17, 8:19 AM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos
> >>> Rovira"
> >>>>> <carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of carlosrovira@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> HI Alex,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2017-11-03 17:52 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Carlos,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I skimmed through
> >>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>> https%3A%2F%2Fmaterial
> >>>>>>> .io%2Fguidelines%2F%23&data=02%7C01%7C%
> >> 7Cbb03216ec0b84fcb6ab108d52397
> >>>>> 82e0
> >>>>>>> %7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> >>>>> 7C636454056000808812&sdata=g5
> >>>>>>> M5cpOsQUPasZfgmUddvnzmY3gF%2B1N%2B7j6Apgyf2Us%3D&reserved=0 last
> >>> night.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My impression is that there were two parts to it.  First was the
> >>>>>>> environment/principles section which talked about physical objects
> >> and
> >>>>>>> light (and motion), and then there were choices of widgets.  For
> >>>>>>> example,
> >>>>>>> I didn't see anything in the first part that said that a text input
> >>> had
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> be a single line and couldn't be a box.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Material guidelines could be a great way to start, but trying to
> give
> >>>>>> something different.
> >>>>>> I think that we need to get something that looks great while be
> >> clearly
> >>>>>> different to google material,
> >>>>>> bootstrap, and others so people could see us as an alternative. That
> >>> could
> >>>>>> make people copying us
> >>>>>> or adopting the whole Apache Royale SDK that is what we want in the
> >> end
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That made me think that we could use our widget set and apply
> >> Material
> >>>>>>> environment and principles to it.  If we decide not to, I would
> >> think
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>> would want to have some sort of similar environment/principles
> >>> document
> >>>>>>> which seems like a fair amount of work.  I think we'd end up
> looking
> >>>>>>> different because we have different widgets and maybe some
> different
> >>>>>>> colors.  I'm pretty sure that we don't want to be different so much
> >>> that
> >>>>>>> we don't create things that folks want to use.  The priority to me
> >> is
> >>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>> to prove that you can alter every pixel in every widget we have so
> >>> that
> >>>>>>> others can provide custom skins as well.  So starting with Material
> >>>>>>> principles seems like it would save us time, we can get something
> >>>>>>> released, and can innovate more later.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think as you that we need a way to make the "presentation" of each
> >>>>>> component highly customizable.
> >>>>>> And we need to be different in visualization (art, colors, ...) but
> >>> not in
> >>>>>> usability that is what people
> >>>>>> needs to be consistently
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Maybe a good question for our users is:  How many of you used the
> >>>>>>> default
> >>>>>>> Flex skins vs a whole new set of skins?  If most folks completely
> >>>>>>> re-skinned to match their corporate branding, it matters less what
> >> our
> >>>>>>> default is, and more that we can allow folks to customize every
> >> pixel.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> We need both: a skin that will be highly customizable and to change
> >>> skins
> >>>>>> to look very very different.
> >>>>>> People with lees money or time in their Apps will choose the first.
> >>> People
> >>>>>> that has more resources will go with the second.
> >>>>>> Apache Royale needs to support both
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The wireframe can be black and white, IMO.  I was thinking that
> >>> "vivid"
> >>>>>>> would have parameterized colors.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I started to think that wireframe could end having lots of
> >>> customization
> >>>>>> controls. For example:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -2-3 main colors as we talked , and the same MDL does
> >>>>>> -possibilitiy to be solid colors, or gradients
> >>>>>> -possibility to have backgrounds more or less opaque
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> if we see a concrete component like button:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - configurable corners, square to round corners
> >>>>>> - more blocky (relief) or more flat
> >>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So wireframe could be a concrete configuration of the main theme
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Since Bootstrap was mentioned, I want to point out that the
> Flat.swc
> >>> is
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> rough approximation of the Flat theme which is a Bootstrap theme.
> >> It
> >>>>>>> is a
> >>>>>>> rough approximation because I could not use the Flat CSS file
> >> directly
> >>>>>>> since it contains much more advanced CSS than we currently support
> >> on
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> SWF side.  But it presumed that the Checkbox was a Label with a
> Span
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> hides in front of or behind the <input type="check" /> in order to
> >>> allow
> >>>>>>> customizing every pixel.  Looks like MDL uses the same Span trick
> >> but
> >>>>>>> maybe without a symbol font.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Basic is, IMO, truly meant to be Basic.  I think the Basic Checkbox
> >>>>>>> should
> >>>>>>> not have that extra Span.  But it looks to me that a
> >> SkinnableCheckbox
> >>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>> add that extra Span and you either give it the same class name that
> >>>>>>> BootStrap or MDL uses or create our own set of classnames and the
> >> CSS
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> goes with it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> The problem with Basic could be that if is very very basic and looks
> >>> with
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> very basic look (as it is very poorly stylizable), I think
> >>>>>> People will not use it at all, in this case, I'll don't understand
> >> the
> >>>>>> goal
> >>>>>> with basic. It's intend ended as a base
> >>>>>> but to not use in production? For this reason is what I want to know
> >> if
> >>>>>> you
> >>>>>> think this theme feature could be plugged in basic or not.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Of course, I could be wrong.  This is not my area of expertise at
> >> all.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Alex, maybe UX is not your expertise area, but your help here is
> >>> very
> >>>>>> needed since we can get to great ideas in this field, but
> >>>>>> maybe don't know how to bring it to implementation in Apache Royale.
> >> I
> >>>>>> think that you, Peter, Harbs,... are needed in order to
> >>>>>> make this happen in the pure arquitecture side or this feature.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Alex
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 11/3/17, 1:35 AM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos
> >>>>>>> Rovira"
> >>>>>>> <carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of
> carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com
> >>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2017-11-03 7:39 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Carlos,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Looks good to me.  Thanks for doing this.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks :)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand all of the aspects of this effort.  My
> >>>>>>> current
> >>>>>>>>> understanding is that Google Material is under the Apache License
> >>> and
> >>>>>>>>> thus
> >>>>>>>>> we can use it if we want to.  Am I correct that
> MaterialDesignLite
> >>> is
> >>>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>> implementation of Google Material and we could create our own
> >>>>>>>>> implementation and it could be visually different?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We can implement our own material in Royale, but I'm afraid that
> >>> doing
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> will not make us
> >>>>>>>> highlight our solution against the rest of competitors. Another
> >> point
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>> something I said various times:
> >>>>>>>> When I did MDL, I notice a huge problem: MDL has its own set of
> >>>>>>>> components,
> >>>>>>>> some are in all sets (Button)
> >>>>>>>> but others not (Card), and they has it's own implementation, what
> >>> make
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>> almost impossible generalize
> >>>>>>>> a theme. For this reason I always point that we need our own set
> >> and
> >>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>> we can implement themes. But other
> >>>>>>>> *externa* sets will never get this since they have its own
> >>>>>>> implementation
> >>>>>>>> and most important once you start to develop
> >>>>>>>> with MDL you can't go back and change for other. So MDL is for me
> >>>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>>> we have until our own set are robust and
> >>>>>>>> highly configurable in both the things we can do and how can it
> >> could
> >>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>> represented, and switch between style should be
> >>>>>>>> really easy to change the global look of an App without much
> >> hassle.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Also, IIRC, Material has different components than Flex did so
> >> we'd
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>> to invent some new looks anyway.  So having a TextInput with
> >> borders
> >>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>>> around would just be our flavor of Material.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That's what I point above. We must to *freeze* the list of
> >> components
> >>>>>>> at
> >>>>>>>> some time work over a concrete set
> >>>>>>>> We can then plan in the future include a new component in the
> >>> official
> >>>>>>>> set,
> >>>>>>>> and that will need to work on the themes we already
> >>>>>>>> have to include the new one.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Regarding colors, it looks like Material is parameterized around
> a
> >>>>>>>>> couple
> >>>>>>>>> of colors.  So if we did our skins to work against parameterized
> >>>>>>> colors
> >>>>>>>>> then would it really matter what color we choose?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That's completly right. I could make wireframe based on two or
> >> three
> >>>>>>>> colors
> >>>>>>>> and as you change it in CSS all controls should tint
> >>>>>>>> consistently.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Regarding Basic components, right now Checkbox is a <label><input
> >>>>>>>>> type="check"/>caption</label>.  AIUI, you cannot style the
> <input>
> >>> on
> >>>>>>>>> many
> >>>>>>>>> browsers, so I think we have to have a different set of elements
> >> in
> >>> a
> >>>>>>>>> checkbox.  It looks like Bootstrap uses:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>   <label><input type="check"/><span />Caption</label>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Where the span uses a special symbol font with checked and
> >> unchecked
> >>>>>>>>> boxes.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That's what we need to figure. Should we make themes available in
> >>>>>>> Basic?
> >>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>> so, has basic the right implementation?
> >>>>>>>> If not, and if we don't want to change the actual very basic
> >>>>>>>> implementation, we need to put some "skin" implementation
> >>>>>>>> that at least in JS implementation I figure that will change one
> >> face
> >>>>>>> (the
> >>>>>>>> actual basic) with the theme face.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm thinking loud, since this is something we should explorer all
> >>>>>>> together
> >>>>>>>> mixing the best ideas of people involved
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>> Alex
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 11/2/17, 5:15 PM, "carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of
> Carlos
> >>>>>>>>> Rovira"
> >>>>>>>>> <carlos.rovira@gmail.com on behalf of carlosrovira@apache.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I want to expose my initial work (very very initial) on two
> >> styles
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>> Royale
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Wireframe:
> >>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>>>> https%3A%2F%2Fsnag.gy%2
> >>>>>>>>>> FtDFxQT.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C203485b5b9c744aed92608d52250
> >>>>>>>>> 0f48%7Cfa7b1b5a7
> >>>>>>>>>> b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636452649612378558&
> >>>>>>>>> sdata=%2Fk8YQxC5bDOaC
> >>>>>>>>>> D8ZfcTzpuqZyBNTKKvkFgqDgnnWZ%2BA%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> (Wireframe intention is for quick Royale App prototyping, people
> >>>>>>> will
> >>>>>>>>> use
> >>>>>>>>>> this to start their applications, and then moving to it's own
> >>>>>>> styling
> >>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>> could be another royale theme provided by us, or something done
> >> by
> >>>>>>>>> users.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Vivid (to put some temporal name):
> >>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>>>> https%3A%2F%2Fsnag.gy%2
> >>>>>>>>>> FqKShm0.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C203485b5b9c744aed92608d52250
> >>>>>>>>> 0f48%7Cfa7b1b5a7
> >>>>>>>>>> b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636452649612378558&
> >>>>>>>>> sdata=kxYE7ylOsXPUEeE
> >>>>>>>>>> r%2BU3AnSe9zEyqgqmsIAAYW6nVuGs%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> (*Please, Notice that only the first button has some styling
> >> here*)
> >>>>>>>>>> (This theme could be the default theme for royale components
> like
> >>>>>>> halo
> >>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>> for mx and spark was for spark)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I want to put in place all the main components, so I would need
> >>> some
> >>>>>>>>>> "component list" (Button, TextInput, CheckBox,...and what
> >> more?.),
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> we'll be centering all the effort in only that list of
> >> components.
> >>>>>>>>>> We need to "paint" all and the code all.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The concept of theme involve a concrete set of components (and
> >> this
> >>>>>>>>> bring
> >>>>>>>>>> us again if we should do this to be pluggable for Basic, or go
> >>>>>>> directly
> >>>>>>>>>> with Express, I think even Basic should be able to use a theme
> >>> maybe
> >>>>>>>>> using
> >>>>>>>>>> beads to be PAYG)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So, before continue tomorrow, I want some feedback on this:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * I think Wireframe is clearly something Black&White, maybe as I
> >>>>>>> did,
> >>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>> some grey scale colors. But for Vivid, I'm still figuring if it
> >>>>>>> should
> >>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>> something "flat" and very simple, or go with something more
> >>>>>>> elaborated
> >>>>>>>>>> since the thing I did in the example with orange button.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * I like the look and feel of Google Material, how textfields
> >> looks
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> behaves, the animations, and visual concepts. But the problem is
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>>>> that visuals are clearly Google Material. Should we create
> >>> something
> >>>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>> new? This has a problem that maybe we could reach something
> >>>>>>> great....or
> >>>>>>>>>> not, and is more work to iterate something until we reach a good
> >>>>>>> point.
> >>>>>>>>>> For example, the text input I created has the classic box look,
> >> for
> >>>>>>> me
> >>>>>>>>>> Material Design is better with only a bootom line, but the first
> >> is
> >>>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>> generalist, while the second is clearly google, android,... I
> >> could
> >>>>>>>>> try to
> >>>>>>>>>> think in something new a see what happens
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * In the other hand, someone would want to join me in this
> >> effort?
> >>>>>>> If
> >>>>>>>>> so I
> >>>>>>>>>> could center in the design part, and other person could work
> with
> >>>>>>> me on
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> example project "RoyaleThemes". The example app is very
> >> important,
> >>>>>>>>> since
> >>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>> could have a playground for every component so we can tweak at
> >>>>>>>>> runtime. we
> >>>>>>>>>> could even generate the code to get that look...this could be
> >> like
> >>>>>>>>>> FlexThemeManager App that we had in the Flex days.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * About colors for the second again, don't have any preferences
> >>>>>>> right
> >>>>>>>>> now,
> >>>>>>>>>> I put the same colors that use on the web in the first button,
> >> but
> >>>>>>> as I
> >>>>>>>>>> said before things (colors and forms) could change dramatically
> >> in
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> second set. In the first one (Wireframe) I think it's ok to go
> >> the
> >>>>>>> path
> >>>>>>>>>> exposed in the image example.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your comments on this, we'll be defining what we want
> >> as
> >>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>>> comment here ok?
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm done for today,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2017-11-02 14:22 GMT+01:00 Carlos Rovira <
> >> carlosrovira@apache.org
> >>>> :
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Harbs!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> very useful, I'll be keeping this info as I make some work
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Carlos
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2017-11-02 12:13 GMT+01:00 Harbs <harbs.lists@gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, the kind of thing we should be striving for in theme-able
> >>>>>>>>>>>> components
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is something like this:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>>>> https%3A%2F%2Fvcalend
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ar.netlify.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%
> >> 7C203485b5b9c744aed92608d52250
> >>>>>>>>> 0f48%7Cf
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> a7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> >>> 7C636452649612378558&sdata=
> >>>>>>>>> b3VtV
> >>>>>>>>>>>> VdACL0Z2EVnIFo2%2BgqSFmJMocDL6k%2Ba6A1ewco%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>>>> https%3A%2F%2Fvcalen
> >>>>>>>>>>>> dar.netlify.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%
> >>> 7C203485b5b9c744aed92608d52250
> >>>>>>>>> 0f48%7C
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> fa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> >>> 7C636452649612378558&sdata=
> >>>>>>>>> b3Vt
> >>>>>>>>>>>> VVdACL0Z2EVnIFo2%2BgqSFmJMocDL6k%2Ba6A1ewco%3D&reserved=0>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 2, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Harbs <harbs.lists@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI, I worked out a theming class for my (Royale) InDesign
> >>>>>>>>> extensions
> >>>>>>>>>>>> which allows for setting global CSS at runtime. The approach
> >>>>>>> might
> >>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> useful in your theming effort:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>>>> https%3A%2F%2Fpaste.a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pache.org%2FcOBC&data=02%7C01%7C%
> >> 7C203485b5b9c744aed92608d52250
> >>>>>>>>> 0f48%7Cfa
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636452649612378558&
> >>>>>>>>> sdata=bRWKxm
> >>>>>>>>>>>> LL16u%2B48IXYdA%2FoEtLWF3eU%2FIGQzBfcVCar5g%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>> https%3A%2F%2Fpast
> >>>>>>>>>>>> e
> >>>>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>>>>>>> apache.org%2FcOBC&data=02%7C01%7C%
> >> 7C203485b5b9c744aed92608d52250
> >>>>>>>>> 0f48%7Cf
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> a7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> >>> 7C636452649612378558&sdata=
> >>>>>>>>> bRWKx
> >>>>>>>>>>>> mLL16u%2B48IXYdA%2FoEtLWF3eU%2FIGQzBfcVCar5g%3D&reserved=0>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Some of the code is specific to Adobe Extensions.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some pointers:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I used inject_html because I needed some overrides in a CSS
> >>>>>>> file.
> >>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> might have been able to rework it so the CSS file was not
> >> needed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a function called createStyleSheet which is
> commented
> >>>>>>>>> out.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> That creates a stylesheet called “royale_theme_styles”. It’s
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>> same
> >>>>>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>>> including a blank css file with the same name, but it’s loaded
> >>>>>>>>>>>> dynamically
> >>>>>>>>>>>> rather than requiring the file to be included. If that
> function
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>> used
> >>>>>>>>>>>> inject_html is not necessary.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The order of dynamically loaded CSS has the same rules as CSS
> >>>>>>>>> loaded
> >>>>>>>>>>>> via declaring it in HTML and the later ones override the
> >> earlier
> >>>>>>>>> ones.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> We
> >>>>>>>>>>>> can probably take advantage of that for different levels of
> >>>>>>>>> defaults.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harbs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 1, 2017, at 8:05 PM, Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>>>>> <carlosrovira@apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:carlosrovira@apache.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I could start to try what Harbs expose, although I
> >>>>>>> think
> >>>>>>>>>>>> what I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will need in the end is to control some SVG parts with
> >>>>>>> variables.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the showed SVG/CSS relation could be sufficient. I'll
> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> showing
> >>>>>>>>>>>> how
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limitations I find. As well as Alex said having inline SVG
> as
> >>>>>>>>> HTML
> >>>>>>>>>>>> would be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> very useful.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2017-11-01 18:27 GMT+01:00 Harbs <harbs.lists@gmail.com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> harbs.lists@gmail.com>>:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m not sure. I haven’t seen problems.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only issues that come to mind are:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. There’s no load events on SVG images on Microsoft
> >>>>>>> browsers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Chrome has issues with SVG, transforms and fractional
> >>>>>>> pixels.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. There’s some blending issues that different browsers
> >>>>>>> handle
> >>>>>>>>>>>> differently
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depending on isolation modes.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There’s likely other issues, but these are ones that I’ve
> >>>>>>> had to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> deal
> >>>>>>>>>>>> with.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The major gotcha in terms of mixing HTML and SVG is that
> >> HTML
> >>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nested inside SVG without ForeignObject. ForeignObject does
> >>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> full
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> browser support.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 1, 2017, at 7:08 PM, Alex Harui
> >>>>>>>>> <aharui@adobe.com.INVALID
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:aharui@adobe.com.INVALID>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of years ago, I thought I had learned that some
> >>>>>>>>> browsers
> >>>>>>>>>>>> had
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues with SVG background-images.  Maybe psuedo-states
> >> were
> >>>>>>>>>>>> involved,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a Button might "blink" as it changed states and loaded an
> >>>>>>> SVG
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> background-image.  Do we know if that was just a bug in
> >> some
> >>>>>>>>>>>> browser
> >>>>>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that still a concern?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I would like to see a simple set of
> HTML/SVG/CSS/JS
> >>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> shows
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any declarative SVG and JS have to work together to handle
> >>>>>>>>>>>> resizable
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skins/components.  Then it might be more obvious what
> needs
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> change in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the tooling.  We allow inline HTML now in MXML.  I think
> we
> >>>>>>>>>>>> can/should
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow inline SVG, but for both inline HTML and SVG, id's
> in
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> inline
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content do not become id's to MXML and AS.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Alex
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7C%7C203485b5b9c744aed92608d52250
> >>>>>>>>> 0f48%7Cfa7b1
> >>>>>>>>>>> b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636452649612378558&
> >>>>>>>>> sdata=C7a72gwfH2
> >>>>>>>>>>> 64wTla%2Fl%2FT9fLB5ODZWiSnRqIzGfFCREU%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2
> >>>>>>>>>> Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7C%7C203485b5b9c744aed92608d52250
> >>>>>>>>> 0f48%7Cfa7b1b5
> >>>>>>>>>> a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636452649612378558&
> >>>>>>>>> sdata=C7a72gwfH264w
> >>>>>>>>>> Tla%2Fl%2FT9fLB5ODZWiSnRqIzGfFCREU%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codeo
> >>>>>>>> scopic.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6422929d95d1406eaa1c08d52295
> >>>>>>> d8cf%7Cfa7b1b5a7b
> >>>>>>>> 34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636452949347201523&
> >>>>>>> sdata=Hm%2B6WIcqQTOHs0
> >>>>>>>> UppUdckW%2FhhyzErprotQUOZNtUtXU%3D&reserved=0>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Director General
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codeos
> >>>>>>>> copic.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6422929d95d1406eaa1c08d52295
> >>>>>>> d8cf%7Cfa7b1b5a7b3
> >>>>>>>> 4438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636452949347201523&
> >>>>>>> sdata=Hm%2B6WIcqQTOHs0U
> >>>>>>>> ppUdckW%2FhhyzErprotQUOZNtUtXU%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Conocenos Avant2 en 1 minuto!
> >>>>>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>>>> https%3A%2F%2Favant2.e
> >>>>>>>> s%2F%23video&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6422929d95d1406eaa1c08d52295
> >>>>>>> d8cf%7Cfa7b1b5a
> >>>>>>>> 7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636452949347201523&
> >>>>>>> sdata=b%2FFMr1Ajit94
> >>>>>>>> TOU%2BjWNuqeN%2FKAiwo7%2BpEVTx8mWLCSc%3D&reserved=0>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede
> >>>>>>> contener
> >>>>>>>> información privilegiada o confidencial. Si ha recibido este
> >> mensaje
> >>>>>>> por
> >>>>>>>> error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta
> >> misma
> >>>>>>> vía y
> >>>>>>>> proceda a su destrucción.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> De la vigente Ley Orgánica de Protección de Datos (15/1999), le
> >>>>>>>> comunicamos
> >>>>>>>> que sus datos forman parte de un fichero cuyo responsable es
> >>>>>>> CODEOSCOPIC
> >>>>>>>> S.A. La finalidad de dicho tratamiento es facilitar la prestación
> >> del
> >>>>>>>> servicio o información solicitados, teniendo usted derecho de
> >> acceso,
> >>>>>>>> rectificación, cancelación y oposición de sus datos dirigiéndose a
> >>>>>>>> nuestras
> >>>>>>>> oficinas c/ Paseo de la Habana 9-11, 28036, Madrid con la
> >>> documentación
> >>>>>>>> necesaria.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> >>>>> http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2
> >>>>>> Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbb03216ec0b84fcb6ab108d52397
> >>>>> 82e0%7Cfa7b1b5
> >>>>>> a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636454056000808812&
> >>>>> sdata=wYPMWW1wpTbtm
> >>>>>> pTt%2F%2FmFuHwgl5nHByLpMuG0lUVba9w%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> <http://www.codeoscopic.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>>
> >>>> Director General
> >>>>
> >>>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Conocenos Avant2 en 1 minuto! <https://avant2.es/#video>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede
> >> contener
> >>>> información privilegiada o confidencial. Si ha recibido este mensaje
> >> por
> >>>> error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma
> >> vía
> >>> y
> >>>> proceda a su destrucción.
> >>>>
> >>>> De la vigente Ley Orgánica de Protección de Datos (15/1999), le
> >>> comunicamos
> >>>> que sus datos forman parte de un fichero cuyo responsable es
> >> CODEOSCOPIC
> >>>> S.A. La finalidad de dicho tratamiento es facilitar la prestación del
> >>>> servicio o información solicitados, teniendo usted derecho de acceso,
> >>>> rectificación, cancelación y oposición de sus datos dirigiéndose a
> >>> nuestras
> >>>> oficinas c/ Paseo de la Habana 9-11, 28036, Madrid con la
> documentación
> >>>> necesaria.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Piotr Zarzycki
> >>
> >> Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
> >> <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
>


-- 

Piotr Zarzycki

Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*

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