Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-river-dev-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-river-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 773CB18274 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 06:07:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 34774 invoked by uid 500); 12 Feb 2016 06:07:34 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-river-dev-archive@river.apache.org Received: (qmail 34749 invoked by uid 500); 12 Feb 2016 06:07:34 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@river.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@river.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@river.apache.org Received: (qmail 34738 invoked by uid 99); 12 Feb 2016 06:07:33 -0000 Received: from Unknown (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 06:07:33 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 7458BC1B4A for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 06:07:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.155 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.155 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[KAM_ASCII_DIVIDERS=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.234, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Received: from mx1-us-west.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TxkckbhogHzz for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 06:07:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fed1rmfepo203.cox.net (fed1rmfepo203.cox.net [68.230.241.148]) by mx1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 87D0E20428 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 06:07:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fed1rmimpo210 ([68.230.241.161]) by fed1rmfepo203.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.15 201-2260-151-145-20131218) with ESMTP id <20160212060724.TIQB26406.fed1rmfepo203.cox.net@fed1rmimpo210> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 01:07:24 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([72.222.113.27]) by fed1rmimpo210 with cox id HJ7N1s00C0bXi1k01J7PBP; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 01:07:23 -0500 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020204.56BD769B.00F7,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=Hq2o7TvS c=1 sm=1 a=CQBHrv2cpZ6XiGeXXObL/w==:17 a=XczjXgE3AAAA:8 a=mV9VRH-2AAAA:8 a=0LiwH3idAAAA:8 a=3hnqvxb7AAAA:8 a=6CmQodKOAAAA:8 a=igIs2nfnAAAA:8 a=OpQ-gDdT9FzVFNBlKu8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=CQBHrv2cpZ6XiGeXXObL/w==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Authentication-Results: cox.net; auth=pass (CRAM-MD5) smtp.auth=gergg@cox.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) Subject: Re: svn commit: r1729654 - in /river/jtsk/trunk: LICENSE NOTICE build.xml From: Gregg Wonderly X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 00:07:23 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8E471EDA-79FB-4AC7-B412-6917CA7F2B51@cox.net> References: <90490DA7-2270-4FEA-8001-D59929DD605C@stratuscom.com> To: dev@river.apache.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) I suppose that one of the details of shipping binaries is that it = creates =E2=80=9Cusers=E2=80=9D rather than =E2=80=9Ccommunity = members=E2=80=9D. The interesting question from my perspective, is what = value, overall, is there in making that distinction. That is, if you = only provide source, then a =E2=80=9Cuser=E2=80=9D has to =E2=80=9Cbuild=E2= =80=9D, and if they can build and have source, they can create diffs and = participate in the projects community by requesting their diffs become = part of the project. While that is an important part making a community = function, I think that there are people who literally will never make = use of something unless it=E2=80=99s already built for them. It comes = down to how much time/money do you have to spend on technology. I=E2=80=99d suggest that at least what it takes to build things is in a = =E2=80=9Cdocument=E2=80=9D. Greg left behind those details in comments = for now. It might be good to request people to =E2=80=9Cask=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cplead=E2=80=9D for build artifacts on this list if it seems = valuable to know if that is actually a detriment to community = participation. Gregg > On Feb 11, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Greg Trasuk = wrote: >=20 >=20 > One more data point -=20 >=20 > - Many Apache projects do not ship binaries. Check out = httpd.apache.org and subversion.apache.org. Both say they do not = officially endorse any binaries (although they do point to = committer-created binaries). >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Greg Trasuk >=20 >> On Feb 11, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Greg Trasuk = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> A little while ago I asked a question - =E2=80=9CDoes it make sense = to release a binary package=E2=80=9D? =20 >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t think we need to. Here are a few reasons: >>=20 >> - Apache=E2=80=99s products are source distributions. Officially, if = we build a binary package, it=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9Cconvenience = binary=E2=80=9D, and not a released product. i.e. Apache doesn=E2=80=99t = really recognize a binary package, but will insist that if we distribute = a binary, the LICENSE and NOTICE files need to correctly reflect the = other libraries that are included in that binary. >> - The build.xml has been modified so it uses Ivy to download the = build-time dependencies when you go to build. That saves us from having = to manage a =E2=80=9Cbuild-deps=E2=80=9D library and distribute it = separately. This means that _we_ are not distributing those = dependencies, so we don=E2=80=99t have to reference them in the NOTICE = and LICENSE files. Which is good, because it doesn=E2=80=99t impose any = requirements on downstream users of River who don=E2=80=99t use = =E2=80=98asm=E2=80=99.=20 >> (I asked about this on the list - you asked me to go ahead and = fix the issue with distributing jars in the source package). >>=20 >> - =E2=80=98classdep=E2=80=99 is built as part of the build process. = Prior to that, =E2=80=98build.xml=E2=80=99 calls =E2=80=98Ivy=E2=80=99 = to download =E2=80=98asm=E2=80=99. We don=E2=80=99t distribute = =E2=80=98classdep=E2=80=99 through Maven Central. We don=E2=80=99t even = recommend using it, why would we distribute it? >> - As I explained before, the JTSK binary on its own doesn=E2=80=99t = do anything. You can=E2=80=99t run =E2=80=9Creggie=E2=80=9D out of it, = for example (this is one reason people find it so confusing to startup = using Jini). All you can do with the JTSK distribution is run the = tests. If you run the integration tests, it starts by recompiling, = hence there=E2=80=99s no need for a binary to run the integration tests. = =20 >> - We _do_ ship the generated jar files as artifacts in Maven Central, = which is realistically how developers will be using the jar files. For = example, you can build the examples project without downloading or = building the main River distribution. Harvester gets its jars from = Maven Central. I=E2=80=99m pretty sure that Rio does too (not sure if = Rio uses Maven or Gradle for its build, but either one uses Maven = Central as the artifact repo). The pom files include the transitive = dependency references. >>=20 >> I left my question as =E2=80=9Chow about if I comment out the bits = that make the binary release, and if anyone wants it badly enough they = can do the work to build the binary properly=E2=80=9D. That=E2=80=99s = what I did. There=E2=80=99s a note next to the commented-out part = telling what work needs to be done. As it stands now, the =E2=80=98releas= e=E2=80=99 target does not generate a binary release artifact, just the = source and doc artifacts. As I=E2=80=99ve explained above, that makes = sense as far as I can tell. >>=20 >> On a practical level, if you desperately want the binary release, = somebody who is not me has to do the work to generate it properly and = then manage the =E2=80=983.0=E2=80=99 release. If we=E2=80=99re good to = go without the binary artifact, I=E2=80=99ll be happy to spin the = =E2=80=983.0=E2=80=99 release as soon as the vote on =E2=80=982.2.3=E2=80=99= is finished. >>=20 >> Cheers, >>=20 >> Greg Trasuk >>=20 >>> On Feb 11, 2016, at 1:35 PM, Peter wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Greg, >>>=20 >>> Please revert this. >>>=20 >>> ASM licensed code exists in classdepend, which classdep uses, in the = tools package. >>>=20 >>> As far as I'm aware were still releasing a binary for River 3, but = you've found an issue with how we currently do that? >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>>=20 >>> Peter. >>>=20 >>> Sent from my Samsung device. >>>=20 >>> Include original message >>> ---- Original message ---- >>> From: Greg Trasuk >>> Sent: 11/02/2016 02:57:35 am >>> To: dev@river.apache.org >>> Subject: Re: svn commit: r1729654 - in /river/jtsk/trunk: LICENSE = NOTICE build.xml >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Just note - this change is on the trunk branch - anyone know if = it=E2=80=99s possible to change the commit message retroactively?=20 >>>=20 >>> Cheers,=20 >>>=20 >>> Greg=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Feb 10, 2016, at 11:55 AM, gtrasuk@apache.org wrote:=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Author: gtrasuk=20 >>>> Date: Wed Feb 10 16:55:24 2016=20 >>>> New Revision: 1729654=20 >>>>=20 >>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=3D1729654&view=3Drev=20 >>>> Log:=20 >>>> The generated release artifacts for the 2.2 branch are now only the = source and documentation artifacts, and do not include the release = tooling like 'roll_release.sh'. Those files are only used by the = release manager, so shouldn't be in the source distribution. =20 >>>>=20 >>>> The LICENSE and NOTICE files also are no longer duplicated to = 'LICENSE.TXT' and 'NOTICE.txt', as per Apache release recommendations. =20= >>>>=20 >>>> LICENSE and NOTICE files have been modified to reflect the fact = that 'asm' and 'animal-sniffer' are no longer distributed with the = source, but are downloaded at build time.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Modified:=20 >>>> river/jtsk/trunk/LICENSE=20 >>>> river/jtsk/trunk/NOTICE=20 >>>> river/jtsk/trunk/build.xml=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Modified: river/jtsk/trunk/LICENSE=20 >>>> URL: = http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/river/jtsk/trunk/LICENSE?rev=3D1729654&r1=3D1= 729653&r2=3D1729654&view=3Ddiff=20 >>>> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=20 >>>> --- river/jtsk/trunk/LICENSE (original)=20 >>>> +++ river/jtsk/trunk/LICENSE Wed Feb 10 16:55:24 2016=20 >>>> @@ -199,39 +199,3 @@=20 >>>> WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express or = implied.=20 >>>> See the License for the specific language governing permissions = and=20 >>>> limitations under the License.=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> -APACHE RIVER SUBCOMPONENTS:=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> -Apache River includes some external software components. Your use = of these=20 >>>> -components is subject to the terms and conditions of the following = licenses:=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> -ASM libraries (tools/asm-5.0.1.jar and = tools/asm-commons-5.0.1.jar)=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> - ASM: a very small and fast Java bytecode manipulation framework=20= >>>> - Copyright (c) 2000-20011 INRIA, France Telecom=20 >>>> - All rights reserved.=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> - Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or = without=20 >>>> - modification, are permitted provided that the following = conditions=20 >>>> - are met:=20 >>>> - 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above = copyright=20 >>>> - notice, this list of conditions and the following = disclaimer.=20 >>>> - 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above = copyright=20 >>>> - notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer = in the=20 >>>> - documentation and/or other materials provided with the = distribution.=20 >>>> - 3. Neither the name of the copyright holders nor the names of = its=20 >>>> - contributors may be used to endorse or promote products = derived from=20 >>>> - this software without specific prior written permission.=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> - THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND = CONTRIBUTORS "AS IS"=20 >>>> - AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT = LIMITED TO, THE=20 >>>> - IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A = PARTICULAR PURPOSE=20 >>>> - ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT OWNER OR = CONTRIBUTORS BE=20 >>>> - LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, = EXEMPLARY, OR=20 >>>> - CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, = PROCUREMENT OF=20 >>>> - SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR = BUSINESS=20 >>>> - INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, = WHETHER IN=20 >>>> - CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR = OTHERWISE)=20 >>>> - ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF = ADVISED OF=20 >>>> - THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Modified: river/jtsk/trunk/NOTICE=20 >>>> URL: = http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/river/jtsk/trunk/NOTICE?rev=3D1729654&r1=3D17= 29653&r2=3D1729654&view=3Ddiff=20 >>>> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=20 >>>> --- river/jtsk/trunk/NOTICE (original)=20 >>>> +++ river/jtsk/trunk/NOTICE Wed Feb 10 16:55:24 2016=20 >>>> @@ -23,11 +23,3 @@ The original two releases of the Service=20 >>>> and code, are available from:=20 >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.artima.com/jini/serviceui/index.html=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> -Copyright (c) 2000-2005 INRIA, France Telecom=20 >>>> -This product includes the ASM library (http://asm.ow2.org/)=20 >>>> -=20 >>>> -This product includes the animal-sniffer library from = codehaus.org.=20 >>>> -The original software is available from = http://mojo.codehaus.org/animal-sniffer/=20 >>>> -Licensed under the MIT license.=20 >>>> -=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Modified: river/jtsk/trunk/build.xml=20 >>>> URL: = http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/river/jtsk/trunk/build.xml?rev=3D1729654&r1=3D= 1729653&r2=3D1729654&view=3Ddiff=20 >>>> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=20 >>>> --- river/jtsk/trunk/build.xml (original)=20 >>>> +++ river/jtsk/trunk/build.xml Wed Feb 10 16:55:24 2016=20 >>>> @@ -87,7 +87,7 @@=20 >>>> =20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>> - depends=3D"clean, all.build, release-src, release-bin, = release-doc">=20 >>>> + depends=3D"clean, all.build, release-src, release-doc">=20 >>>> =20 >>>>=20 >>>> =20 >>>> @@ -117,7 +117,13 @@=20 >>>> =20 >>>> -->=20 >>>>=20 >>>> - =20 >>>> + =20 >>>> + =20 >>>> =20 >>>>=20 >>>> =20 >>>> @@ -149,6 +155,8 @@=20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> + =20 >>>> + =20 >>>>