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From Bryan Thompson <br...@systap.com>
Subject Re: Release 3.0
Date Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:51:41 GMT
+1 on a short path to a 3.0 release.   Everything else can go into a
backlog for 3.1+.

Bryan

----
Bryan Thompson
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On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Greg Trasuk <trasukg@stratuscom.com> wrote:

>
> > On Sep 3, 2015, at 3:43 AM, Peter <jini@zeus.net.au> wrote:
> >
> > +1 for putting it in the net.jini.config API namespace, the DSL lives in
> net.jini.config.
>
> Arguably, the important thing, the thing that really _should_ be in
> net.jini.config, is the Configuration interface., bakes that forms part of
> the API that one uses to create services.  If the Configuration interface
> changed, the code to start up any service would immediately break.
>
> The ConfigurationFile implementation is in there because it’s in there.
> Developers never see the ConfigurationFile class if they’re using the
> Configuration interface and the ConfigurationProvider correctly.
>
> >  This is a good thing, we should consider deprecating the DSL in favour
> of Groovy.
> >
>
> Really?  We should force Java developers to learn a new programming
> language so they can configure their system?
>
> I do not understand your logic in saying “we should consider deprecating
> the DSL in favour of Groovy”.  Nor your logic.  I’m not saying the
> Java-like Configuration DSL is wonderful, but surely a Groovy-based DSL vs
> a Java-based DSL is purely a matter of taste.
>
> > There's no standards body for Jini standardization, we need to be able
> to manage and evolve our API sensibly,
>
> This is my point, lest you think I’m just “resisting progress”.  Sensibly
> is the key word.  We, the Apache River project, inherited the Jini
> Specification, but then we very purposefully drew a line around it, saying
> “This is a point of reference for when people write services”.  We adopted
> the policy that changes to the specification need to be discussed and voted
> on, because those changes affect users of the tool set.  Changes to the
> Jini API cross a line of demarcation where _we_ decided, long ago, that “we
> really need to talk about it”.  That’s why I’m challenging  cavalier
> statements like “we should consider deprecating the DSL in favour of
> Groovy”.
>
> The demarcation point of the specification should serve as a reminder that
> we’re writing this thing in order to let people create service-oriented
> architectures.  We need to consider the users.
>
>
>
> > locking out progress would lead to paralysis and inevitable obsolesence.
> >
> > The Groovy configuration is far superior to the DSL in many ways,
>
> Please specify.
>
> > leaving it as an implementation detail, discourages usage.
> >
>
> Here is my real  point when I suggest that GroovyConfiguration might be
> best separated out into a separate project.  We could structure a project,
> discuss it, vote on a release and have it into Maven Central by the end of
> next week.  So users of River could have an easy way to use a
> GroovyConfiguration pretty much RIGHT NOW (I realize they can use it now,
> but it would be easier if they had a jar file with the right provider api
> hooks) instead of having it when they get around to adopting River 3.0,
> which will be after we get around to releasing River 3.0.
>
> When I have, in the past, talked about “navel gazing”, this is what I
> mean.  Here we are, arguing over whether the existing configuration DSL
> should be entirely replaced, and what the right package is, when we could
> have created a separate deliverable and had it done by now, if only we were
> willing to use the actual extension mechanism that’s built into the
> existing product rather than talk about changing the public API!
>
> When I argue against messing around with the JTSK, it’s because delivering
> useful functionality to users in small increments will be faster than
> making any changes to that behemoth.  No matter how you slice it, the
> larger the deliverable, the longer things take, especially if we’re doing
> our due diligence correctly and considering the downstream impact.  Believe
> it or not, when I show a bias against touching the JTSK I am promoting a
> bias towards action.
>
> Pardon my venting.  It’s because I have used Jini in real applications and
> truly, truly think it’s a technology that we should be promoting, so
> anything that gets in the way of ACTUALLY SHIPPING SOMETHING kind of gets
> under my skin.  I’ll stop now.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg Trasuk
>
> > Peter.
> >
> >
> > On 3/09/2015 5:17 AM, Dennis Reedy wrote:
> >>> On Sep 2, 2015, at 304PM, Greg Trasuk<trasukg@stratuscom.com>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Sep 2, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Dennis Reedy<dennis.reedy@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Greg,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am quite aware of the purpose of the net.jini namespace :) The
> GroovyConfig class follows net.jini.config.ConfigurationFile packaging.
> Building groovy-config.jar follows the current approach of external jars
> (dependent jars) relies on the dep-libs/groovy/groovy-all2.3.8.jar. The
> only time you’ll have a Groovy runtime dependency is when you add
> groovy-config.jar to your classpath. Furthermore, the groovy-config.pom
> declared a dependency on groovy-all so you’ll get groovy resolved
> transitively when using dependency management.
> >>>>
> >>> OK, I’m just trying to avoid entanglements in the build.  We keep
> talking about wanting to modularize and simplify the build, so it seems odd
> to be adding more stuff into the JTSK core rather than spinning stuff out
> of it.  But as I said, I don’t have a strong opinion.
> >> I was just following the lead of net.jini.config.ConfigurationFile. If
> others feel strongly about this, I’ll move it into org.apache.river.config.
> If thats the case, then ConfigurationFile should move as well? Otherwise
> lets keep it in net.jini.config
> >>
> >>> I do have a strong opinion about the use of dep-libs.  I don’t like
> it.  I don’t like it at all.  We need to deal with getting jar files out of
> the source release.  I don’t think we have any business archiving and
> distributing someone else’s artifacts, even if the license does allow it.
> I do know that Apache policy is that releases are source code only.   I
> tried to introduce Ivy a while ago and got slapped down, so I’ll let
> someone else figure out how to separate the stuff out and then distribute
> the deps separately.
> >> I tend to agree with the dep-libs, but it’s what we have now. Do you
> want to make this a pre-requisite to the 3.0 release? I have a small window
> to help getting 3.0 in shape to be a release candidate, if we all agree to
> adding Ivy (yuck, but its a step towards dependency management), I could
> try and fit that in - that is as long as all the dep-libs are resolvable
> from central.
> >>
> >> Simplest case; for a source release we can exclude dep-libs. If someone
> wants to build they can svn checkout a branch.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Also, took a look at your mods to deploy_river.groovy, no problem
> that you needed to use gpg:sign-and-deploy-file, but curious as to why you
> chose to put the command to execute in a list instead of use the string as
> before?
> >>>>
> >>> I don’t remember, it was a while ago.  I seem to recall that I had to
> change it to get it to work.  Probably something about escaping the
> characters to keep Maven happy, but I don’t recall exactly.  Feel free to
> change it if it makes more sense.
> >> No problem, it’s a utility, if that makes it work, fine with me. Was
> just curious.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

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