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From Wade Chandler <hwadechandler-apa...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Deciding the Future
Date Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:13:36 GMT
I guess about all I can say is to look over the mail list archives. We have went over most
of these things recently. It comes down to getting folks to chip in and do some things. Look
back over the archives over the past month, and we have essentially started it seems. That
is where we all stand at this point. Looks to me like it will all come together when folks
chip in etc. If a roadmap is something you are interested, maybe you can detail some things,
using your ideas and the list archive, and then start putting it together and adjusting some
web pages. Maybe someone can chime in on what to do to access the web pages etc and get them
published. Anyways, it seems we need all the little details aired out. I believe it would
be nice to have some folks get together to organize what maybe needs to be done as to help
keep folks from duplicating efforts, but Jira can do this. Seems a good thing would be to
dig through the emails and your ideas, pull them
 out, and create Jiri tickets for them all. Then they can be tracked there.

Sound good?

On getting together and planning etc it would be good to have someone organize something like
a Skype meeting or something of that nature which everyone could get on and talk about some
things. Maybe schedule such a get together every two weeks and folks who want to pick *little*
tasks that they are able to accomplish as time goes on. Sooner or later we'll have it all
done, and we'll all be on the same page. Seems we need some guiding direction for initiating
some plans, but maybe we can just use the list and Jira and get it going. Seems on some other
projects such as Tomcat there is a lot of list and Jira external collaboration, but again,
maybe I'm wrong there.


Wade Chandler, CCE
Software Engineer and Developer, Certified Forensic Computer Examiner, NetBeans Dream Team
Member, and NetBeans Board Member

----- Original Message ----
> From: Jeremy Easton-Marks <coachjeremyeastonmarks@gmail.com>
> To: river-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 12:09:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Deciding the Future
> All,
> I have been watching the emails travel back and forth and figured I would
> add my 2 cents on what I am seeing. Now keep in mind that my perspective is
> from a potential developer and contributor to the River project. Since I am
> new I have a clean perspective of a first time user of River.
> I am impressed with the idea of River. I have been a fan for nearly a decade
> now and have been keeping an eye on it. It is nice to see that a core group
> of people who are so passionate about it.
> I want to use River in my next major project and have posted this before but
> nobody has addressed my concerns. I can guarantee you if I am having these
> concerns then so other developers.
> - How do I get started with River?
> I have seen tutorials, and have visited the jini.org site but it looks old,
> and unimpressive. Are the old tutorials for Jini still valid for the River
> project? River does not seem approachable from an outside developer. This is
> a shame since it will never be used if it appears to be unsupported and
> complicated to use.
> - What is the future of River?
> I haven't seen a roadmap for development, specific future goals, or when
> River is going to come out of incubation mode. This doesn't instill
> confidence in River and makes it hard for me to justify using it. I don't
> want to start using this amazing technology only to find out that it is
> going to be dropped in 3 months when I am half way through developing with
> it.
> - How do I help out?
> I have joined the mailing lists, and watched emails being sent back and
> forth. I have twice asked what I can do to help out and no one has
> responded. I don't know what next steps I need to do to help out with River
> and to help get it to the next steps.
> Never to be one who presents problems without ideas for solutions here is
> what I propose.
> - Make River approachable.
> Update jini.org, let developers know that this project is not dead. If the
> tutorials, and quick start guides are not valid then update them so they are
> valid. If they are valid then post that they are still valid and write new
> ones.
> - Define the Future of River or at least publicize it
> The last update on the Apache River page is from April 27th, 2008. Granted
> that is only 8 months ago but in internet time that might as well be 8 years
> ago. On first glance it looks like this project is dead. A definitive
> roadmap of goals, and dates need to be posted. If there isn't one then one
> needs to be created. This document needs to be visible to all and constantly
> updated.
> - Recruit, and Promote
> There needs to be a way of new potential developers to get involved. Perhaps
> a mentoring program or a document that helps point them in the right
> direction. If someone posts wanting to know what they need to do to help
> then people should be jumping all over them to help them out.
> I am willing to bet though that a lot of developers would be interested in
> using River/Jini. The problem is that most developers have never heard of
> either one and the ones that have believe the project is dead or have run
> into the same difficulties getting started that I have. Jini/River will only
> have a future if people know about it and can use it. The websites need to
> be updated and documentation needs to be written to promote it. I believe
> the java.net website is looking for people to write about Jini and I am sure
> that other sites would be interested in the same.
> If I can get started on River and feel confident about it then I will help
> write, promote, and develop it.
> This email is not a criticism of anyone or of River. If I didn't want River
> to succeed then I wouldn't haven't spent part of my day working on it.
> Once again someone please let me know what I have to do to help.
> Jeremy R. Easton-Marks
> "ĂȘtre fort pour ĂȘtre utile"
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Michael McGrady <
> mmcgrady@topiatechnology.com> wrote:
> > I would organizing the build for Maven and then giving a choice of ANT with
> > SVN or Maven.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 8, 2008, at 3:57 AM, Greg Trasuk wrote:
> >
> >
> >> This reminds me of that quote - "Some people, when confronted with a
> >> problem, think 'I know, I?ll use regular expressions.' Now they have two
> >> problems".
> >>
> >> I'm not in favour of Maven.  I can see restructuring the build somewhat
> >> for Ant (remember, the structure really comes from being built with a
> >> makefile, before there was an Ant).
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Greg.
> >>
> >> On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 03:44, Jools wrote:
> >>
> >>> +1
> >>>
> >>> I've love to see the codebase move over to a maven build.
> >>>
> >>> Over the last 9 months we have moved all our projects over to maven, with
> >>> great success.
> >>> Our build and release procedures are greatly reduced, and getting
> >>> developers
> >>> up and running with their ide's.
> >>>
> >>> I'd be happy to Log a JIRA and take a lead on this, what do others think
> >>> ?
> >>>
> >>> --Jools
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2008/12/8 Jeff Ramsdale 
> >>>
> >>>  Niclas,
> >>>> Once again I very much agree with you. Dan's got a good point about
> >>>> jars
> >>>> (-dl and non-dl) resulting from each service component, though.
> >>>>
> >>>> I know this will induce groans from some parties but Apache River would
> >>>> really benefit from a Maven build. The dependencies between modules
> >>>> complex as is the generation of the artifacts. Maven would allow for
> >>>> restructuring that clarifies the source structure while supporting the
> >>>> generation of composite artifacts. You might look into the Maven
> >>>> Classdep
> >>>> Plugin that Chris Sterling introduced several years ago: <
> >>>> https://maven-classdep-plugin.dev.java.net/>. It could make sense
> >>>> bring
> >>>> this plugin into the Apache River fold, incidentally. Use of this plugin
> >>>> could also help increase uptake among the Maven developer crowd as it
> >>>> simplifies the generation of artifacts for Jini services.
> >>>>
> >>>> A huge benefit of a Maven-based build is the ability to generate
> >>>> metadata
> >>>> for most of the popular IDEs. This has proven to be incredibly useful
> >>>> my
> >>>> teams and allows for a multiplicity of IDEs to be used against the same
> >>>> codebase.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  --
> >> Greg Trasuk, President
> >> StratusCom Manufacturing Systems Inc. - We use information technology to
> >> solve business problems on your plant floor.
> >> http://stratuscom.com
> >>
> >>
> > Michael McGrady
> > Senior Engineer
> > Topia Technology, Inc.
> > 1.253.720.3365
> > mmcgrady@topiatechnology.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

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