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From "Calum Shaw-Mackay" <calum.shawmac...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Deciding the Future
Date Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:02:14 GMT
One thing we could do is talk to some of the independent project
leaders and look for ways in which we could integrate these projects
into some part of river (river-contribs?) things like integration with
J2EE, Bantam, etc in a similar vein to ServiceUI..... we can ask
people to take a small step outside their comfort zone, we can;t ask
them to walk the plank

2008/11/24 Jukka Zitting <jukka.zitting@gmail.com>:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Tom Hobbs <tom.hobbs@sucden.co.uk> wrote:
>> So, if this isn't a good approach, can someone let me know so I can
>> stop?
>>
>> If it is a good approach, can someone 'bigger' in this project please
>> back me up and help get things moving?
>
> I do appreciate the effort, but my experience with open source
> projects has been that the kind of plan that you're trying to outline
> doesn't work that well in practice. You can highlight areas that need
> attention, but ultimately it's up to each individual contributor to
> decide what areas most interest them.
>
> We're all here to scratch our own itches. There are no "big" people
> here that could tell others what to do. Apache is a meritocracy, so
> the only way you can really lead is by doing things, not by calling
> others to action. RIVER-296 is a good first step!
>
> As an example, you called for us to "Spend the following 7 days doing
> three things". Did you do that? Why would you expect anyone else to
> have done that? In Apache you lead by example. :-)
>
> You state the ultimate goal as: "River to be used in more projects".
> What's in that for me? Increased adoption only brings me indirect
> benefits in terms of increased project activity, but it won't help
> with the issues I face today.
>
>> 1) Better prototyping experience
>> To increase adoption we need to [...]
>
> Are you scratching your itch or someone else's itch? Rephrase the
> issue as "to make my work easier, I need to ...", and you're on to
> something. Often you're not the only one with a problem, and so
> getting your problems solved will ultimately also lead to increased
> adoption as more people find the project useful.
>
> The people following this mailing list have all probably done at least
> some prototyping with Jini and/or River. Will you'll be doing more of
> that in the future? What changes in River would make such work easier?
> What can you do to make those changes happen?
>
>> 2) Apache adoption
>> To convince people to use River we need to convince them
>> that the community is active and will stick around.
>
> No, the only (sustainable) way you can get someone to adopt a project
> is to have it solve some real problem they are having. No amount of
> community activity will help if that basic requirement is met.
> Similarly there are lots of people who are capable of figuring their
> way out with even an abandoned codebase if the benefits of doing that
> are good enough.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>

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