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From "Herrick, Mike" <Mike.Herr...@LibertyMutual.com>
Subject RE: Short term plan forward... (proposal)
Date Tue, 22 May 2007 12:25:47 GMT

I will try to be more constructive in my criticism in the future. River
so far has just been confusing to watch. As someone new to the
community, this is discouraging.

I did mention the same criticism you can find on my blog months ago on
this list (was more positive then). We just hit a point in our project
where the future looked too bleak that we didn't feel like we could
continue to invest in this technology. I now have a little hope, but we
will only pick things back up once it is clear that River is on a good

I don't have a vote, but I like Jim Hurley's suggestion for a plan.
Those are nice baby steps that will get things going. Any of the follow
on stuff can just be .4, .5. .6 or whatever.

In terms of what I can do to help - I can do some grunt work of some
sort to start. If you have an idea let me know, otherwise I'll keep an
eye out.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Brouwer [mailto:mark.brouwer@cheiron.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:31 AM
To: river-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Short term plan forward... (proposal)

Herrick, Mike wrote:
> Whatever is done, get it on the roadmap. Get a 12 month roadmap. Start

> acting like a project that has a chance at making it as a poddling.

Hello Mike,

It is hard not to miss the criticism here and in the blogosphere with
regard to Jini and the Apache River project. Therefore I do have a
remark (I just picked your posting so don't take it too personally).

"And so, my fellow Apache River friends, ask not what the project can do
for you; ask what you can do for the project."

I say this as although it is indeed unfortunate to realize how long it
took for the code to arrive, sometimes I also have the feeling some
people think we are here to fulfill their wishes for which they even
have a hard time to make them public.

I have no problem with criticism as it is often a healthy way to get you
out of your comfort zone, at the same time I also think there is a limit
to it. This project will only become a success and graduate if we are
able to collect new committers who want to backup their wishes with
effort. I realize for a large part that will depend on our
guidance/openness and atmosphere we create here, but equally important
are the ideas and will to contribute by those prospects.

Asking for a roadmap is logical and fine, but so is suggesting ideas for
that roadmap as it might well turn out that if nobody comes up with
ideas and did some thinking how that fits in with the current
investments/installed base it might well turn out that it ain't the
Big-Bang some of you might be hoping for, while at the same time
significant work is performed that is only perceived by others as

This posting is not intended to shut people up, the contrary, but I hope
we can get a collaborative atmosphere here even while at some moment you
want to put the other in the drying machine because of his/her opinion

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