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From "S Sudhakaran.m" <ssudhakara...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: qpid broker on windows
Date Sat, 31 Jan 2009 05:57:36 GMT
>What implementation is provided for these abilities in the spec is up to
the implementer

Thanks for the reply Carl.

But can't the standards body decide what are the must features and
standardize on them ?

I have no experience in standards process but, really, what prevents an
Apache flavour of AMQP / IBM flavour of AMQP / OpenAMQ flavour and so on and
so forth? In which case, the very intention with which AMQP was concieved in
the first place by OHara, to make messaging a commodity software, is lost ?

The reason i'm evaluating AMQP instead of any other solutions is also
primarily due to this open-nes and secondary to the features, which i admit
are great too. However a feature progression from great to heavy i admit
would be percieved as a disadvantage - like say the CORBA  ?

Is it possible to make things stricter, as a legal binding on part of the
AMQP implementors to use the term AMQP as a binding to implement all
features (okayed by a freely available set of tests) or not claim AMQP
compatibility at all?

Thanks
Arun


On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Carl Trieloff <cctrieloff@redhat.com>wrote:

>
> The specification defines durability, transactions, etc. the 0-10
> specification also defines
> the fail-over handlers etc, for client interop which is used to in our
> Active-Active cluster
> implementation.
>
> What implementation is provided for these abilities in the spec is up to
> the implementer. so the list below
> is covered by capabilities of the specification.
>
> The spec then also provides mechanisms for extensions and in this area we
> provide
> a few like XMLExchange for XQuery routing. and a few additional queue types
> like LVQ, RING
> etc.
>
> These can be used or ignored.
>
> In terms of how helps develop Qpid, google some of the names on the people
> page... you
> may change your view :-)
> Carl.
>
>
>
> spaace wrote:
>
>> durable message support, transactions, ...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the reply Carl.
>>
>> Are these features part of the AMQP standards or are these extensions that
>> QPID has defined? I thought storage and forward was part of AMQP
>> standards.
>> Searching the archives showed me some broken test cases being reported. If
>> someone has that full list it would be really helpful in making a final
>> decision
>>
>> I was basically looking at OpenAMQ  based on the info i saw on the net
>> that
>> the initial implementation of AMQP was driven by these guys and that
>> JPMorgan had their first LIVE implementation running on it. Seeing how
>> JPMorgan drove the initial investigation i was partial towards OpenAMQ.
>>
>> However i have to admit, the qpid client with OpenAMQ broker
>> incompatibility
>> possibilities does have me spooked. Is this combination even conceivable ?
>> If it is not we might as well not even test the inter-broker cases and
>> proceed with client and broker from the same family after evaluating basic
>> feature support.
>>
>> Rgds
>> Arun
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Carl Trieloff <cctrieloff@redhat.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Arun,
>>>
>>> I quick look at the download page will show what is compat with what
>>> http://qpid.apache.org/download.html
>>>
>>> In terms of which way to go, obviously I would recommend a Qpid broker...
>>> ok, seriously,
>>> both the Qpid broker are more feature rich that OpenAMQ. For example they
>>> don't have things
>>> like durable message support, transactions, ...
>>>
>>> In terms of Java, versus C++,
>>>
>>> C++ is on the latest spec and fast + low latency, client side JMS
>>> selectors, Federation, clustering, QMF, QMan etc.
>>> Java has server side selectors for JMS, and runs on more platforms, ok I
>>> am
>>> not the best to list here... but someone
>>> on the list will...
>>>
>>> and then of course we are friendlier ... :-) lol
>>> Carl.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> spaace wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Marnie,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the quick reply. I'm basically trying to evaluate different
>>>> broker implementations for my project, having decided on AMQP for its
>>>> open
>>>> standard. I have decided on QPID as my client and is currently
>>>> evaluating
>>>> the QPID Java / C++ broker and the OpenAMQ broker for the server side.
>>>>
>>>> However i 'm not sure what the differences are, especially wrt the
>>>> "other"
>>>> features like broker-to-broker connectivity, security, request and
>>>> subscribtion forwarding between brokers and similar features, beyond the
>>>> basic send-and-recieve. Personally conducting the entire feature testing
>>>> seemed a bit daunting and hence my query.
>>>>
>>>> The java feature list would be really helpful in this regard. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Arun
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Marnie McCormack <
>>>> marnie.mccormack@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I can give you a brief overview, and I'm sure that others (particularly
>>>>> the
>>>>> C++-ers) will add to this reply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fundamentally, it's all about choice. Our project seeks to provide a
>>>>> range
>>>>> of client & broker implementations of the AMQP specification (and
JMS
>>>>> for
>>>>> the Java elements) from which our users can select the combination best
>>>>> suited to their needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> This project has evolved from the original contribution of the Java
>>>>> broker
>>>>> &
>>>>> client to Apache, built as a production quality implementation of the
>>>>> AMQP
>>>>> specification and JMS compatible. From there, the other implementations
>>>>> have
>>>>> grown to provide a variety of clients, for use with existing
>>>>> application
>>>>> architectures which mandate different languages.
>>>>>
>>>>> The C++ broker brings with it tuning options for different platforms,
>>>>> and
>>>>> this is definitely something that others on this list can expand upon.
>>>>> Work
>>>>> is proceeding on a number of ports of the C++ broker for different
>>>>> platforms. The Java broker is platform independent.
>>>>> I'll pull together some additional information on the features
>>>>> provided/supported by the Java Broker (as of M4) as I don't think we
>>>>> have
>>>>> anything which reflects the current feature set, and post the link here
>>>>> shortly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please do let us know if there's anything you're specifically
>>>>> interested
>>>>> in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hth,
>>>>> Marnie
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 8:54 AM, spaace <spaace@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm new to Qpid and have been following the threads and reading up
on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> docs for some time. I'm trying to decide on the brokers to be used
for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> private project and have this doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are multiple brokers that bring with them additional compatibility
>>>>>> requirements being developed by QPID ? Is it for enhancing the reach
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> other platforms that only a particular technology might support (JMS
>>>>>> etc)
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> is this a corporate missive from Redhat or some one else?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where can i find the information regarding ways in which the brokers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> differ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> from one another ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Arun
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Marnie McCormack [mailto:    ]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:02 PM
>>>>>> To: users@qpid.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: qpid broker on windows
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See what you mean, thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Qpid roadmap shows 0-10 implementation on the Java broker as
one
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> our
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> next big ticket deliveries. This would mean that the C++ client could
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> again
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> interop with the Java broker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the C# front, we are discussing on the dev list the strategic
>>>>>> solution
>>>>>> going forward, but again 0-10 implementation on the Java broker will
>>>>>> put
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> choice of .Net client in the user's hands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Appreciate this doesn't help now, but just for info !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Marnie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:41 AM, falconair <shahbazc@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some components of my system need to interact with the broker
through
>>>>>>> C# (and soon C++).  That is the main motivation behind using
qpid,
>>>>>>> rather than other jms providers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marnie McCormack wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Java broker works with the M4 Java Client and the M4
0-8 .Net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> client.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> does not yet support 0-10 features, but if you're using JMS
that's
>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>> not a major issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marnie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:57 AM, Carl Trieloff
>>>>>>>> <cctrieloff@redhat.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you are correct, the Java broker is not up to 0-10 yet.
>>>>>>>>> Carl.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> falconair wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I stopped using the Java broker months ago because
the latest
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> clients
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> (java,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  .NET) are based on version 0-10 protocol and the only broker
which
>>>>>>>>>> supports
>>>>>>>>>> this version is c++.  Am I wrong in my assumption?
 If Java broker
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> works
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with m4 clients, I'm happy to switch to java for dev/test
work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marnie McCormack wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it'd be useful to point out that the
Qpid Java Broker
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> complete with a Windows startup .bat and is widely used by
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Windows, out of the box so to speak. It is production proven.
>>>>>>>>>>> You can find out what you need to get started
with the Java
>>>>>>>>>>> Broker
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> at:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://qpid.apache.org/getting-started-guide.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Please give us a shout if you need any extra info.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Marnie
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Carl Trieloff
>>>>>>>>>>> <cctrieloff@redhat.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> falconair wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another poster asked for a pre-built
windows binary of qpid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> broker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I'd
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to encourage the devs to provide it as
well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since qpid is still not very well known,
I suspect it is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> down-in-the-trenches developers who are
introducing qpid to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> companies. Almost every place I have worked, developer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> workstations
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   windows based. In other words, devs are unlikely to experiment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> qpid
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> track down a fairly large number of dependencies
and compile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    The problem is worse in distributed environments where one
dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> either
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> has to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   distributed his own qpid exe or convince other devs
to build it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> scratch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   I think this problem will be mitigated by amqp 0-10 java
broker,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   then, pre-built binaries will be very useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> yes, we have started a thread on the dev
list to this end, and a
>>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>> has been built for Windows. Once
>>>>>>>>>>>> a few people have validated it, we can post
it to the user list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to help validate the build, jump
on the dev list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Carl.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Project:      http://qpid.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use/Interact: mailto:users-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>> http://n2.nabble.com/qpid-broker-on-windows-tp2207029p2237421.html
>>>>>>> Sent from the Apache Qpid users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>  Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
>>>>>>> Project:      http://qpid.apache.org
>>>>>>> Use/Interact: mailto:users-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1912 - Release Date:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> 1/23/2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 6:54 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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