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From Jiri Jetmar <juergen.jet...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Update from Niclas
Date Mon, 22 Feb 2016 20:11:04 GMT
Agree, touch sensors are not accurate, but often used here in Germany.

"Peltier; you mean a Seebeck element ;-)"

Seems that they are called here "Peltier"

Elements" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect

The reason might be, that the guys Seebeck and Peltier independently
discovered the thermoelectric effect.. :-)

"It is more research than I can afford at the moment, bit definitely
an interesting
area."

Yes, indeed, it goes to the topic of energy harvesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvMeGX0aI08

Cheers,
Jiri



2016-02-22 12:37 GMT+01:00 Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org>:

> Touch sensors are a little bit tricky, if you want a reasonable amount of
> accuracy. A lot of losses unless very well insulated.
> That said, the challenge is not so much the electronics but the mechanical
> part. Easy to install is the main factor, and power supply is a primary
> concern... Will leave this for a bit later.
>
> Peltier; you mean a Seebeck element ;-)
> It is not trivial to collect, but something I have been thinking about for
> more than a year. Without very clunky mechanical arrangements, the
> extraction is very small and power budget becomes a major challenge. It is
> more research than I can afford at the moment, bit definitely an
> interesting area.
>
> Niclas
> On Feb 21, 2016 9:22 PM, "Jiri Jetmar" <juergen.jetmar@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sounds impressive.. !
> >
> > another usecase for a Wifi temperature sensor. What about to put a little
> > magnet to it
> > so that it sticks on a heating body.
> >
> > With a peltier element it would be eventually possible to generate enough
> > power (from the temperature delta) over
> > the day for a transmission.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jiri
> >
> > 2016-02-21 3:50 GMT+01:00 Niclas Hedhman <hedhman@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Update; Yesterday I located the last major bug in the Forth
> interpreter.
> > > Yay!!!
> > >
> > > ~1k assembler instructions, and ~8kbytes of RAM space for the
> JonesForth
> > > vocabulary.
> > >
> > > Today I am starting on a TCP socket for the REPL, instead of the serial
> > > port used so far.
> > >
> > > GPIO, ADC and other peripherals will be very straight forward memory
> > > operations. Probably borrow from
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Forth_Lesson_22
> > >
> > > I have also decided on the multitasking model, and going for an Actor
> > model
> > > similar to Erlang, but adopted for Forth concepts (messages on stack).
> > > Still not sure how to do memory allocation separation in a good manner,
> > but
> > > I'll get there.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Niclas Hedhman <hedhman@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This thread is well off-topic, but we are a small group of friendly
> > > people
> > > > so I don't mind. Someone else might, and if so... Speak up.
> > > >
> > > > Jiri; powering is an interesting longer term challenge. I don't want
> > too
> > > > much on the plate in the beginning, and rather have a MVP going out
> the
> > > > door now, than solving a larger task by next year.
> > > > But I like your idea, and should research it further. The peek power
> > > > however is more like 700mW at full WiFi transmit. Super-capacitor to
> > the
> > > > rescue, I guess.
> > > >
> > > > Roman; I have always been fascinated by the simplicity of Forth, and
> it
> > > > has been fun doing Assembler again.
> > > > Forth isn't necessary for the temperature sensor device and the
> sensor
> > > > network built on top of it. But I want to see if it makes sense to
> > > create a
> > > > user programmable platform on top of Forth, for automation systems
> > > > integrators can use. I did a block programming system in Java for
> this
> > > > purpose, and think I can run the same thing on Forth and a fraction
> in
> > > > size. My target for that is the upcoming ESP-32, dual core and a
> > whopping
> > > > 400kB or so of usable RAM. The CEO told me over beer, that it is
> > expected
> > > > to only cost about 20% more...
> > > >
> > > > So, one of the next steps is a WiFi PID regulator, programmable,
> maybe
> > > two
> > > > inputs and a single 0-10V output.
> > > >
> > > > Again, the monitoring, control and data management on top will be
> key,
> > > > together with the local network management for devices to work in
> > unison,
> > > > and the security needed whilst keeping it easy to use.
> > > >
> > > > I have heard that NASA uses Forth in missions, but don't know if this
> > is
> > > > still the case, or just surviving rumours from the 80s. But as we
> ride
> > > hard
> > > > into explosion of super-tiny devices, I think it is the only feasible
> > > > alternative to C, and more often than not provides more compact code.
> > > >
> > > > My implementation for ESP8266 is far from done. I am currently
> chasing
> > a
> > > > bug in the compile system, as it seems that the compile BEGIN...UNTIL
> > > > and/or IF...ELSE...THEN gets compiled with incorrect jump addresses.
> > > > Hopefully I can sort that out in one of these evenings...
> > > > After that, I will turn my focus to;
> > > >
> > > >   * Serial over WiFI socket instead of serial ports.
> > > >
> > > >   * GPIO, PWM, ADC and other microcontroller functions.
> > > >
> > > >   * Async message queues, so I can do...
> > > >
> > > >   * Multitasking
> > > >
> > > >   * pre-compile the FORTH vocabulary to ROMable code and not occupy
> the
> > > > RAM.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I am putting up Jiri and Roman on the list for the field
> test.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Niclas
> > > > On Feb 15, 2016 14:23, "Roman Shaposhnik" <roman@shaposhnik.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org
> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > Gang,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I haven't had much time on Zest lately, as I have been busy
> > creating a
> > > >> > low-costWiFi capable, USB-powered temperature sensor. See
> > > >> > http://hedhman.org/~niclas/IndoorioD.jpg
> > > >> >
> > > >> > And for the fun of it, I ported FORTH programming language to
the
> > > >> ESP8266
> > > >> > CPU that is on this, in Assembler of course. Interpreter,
> Compiler,
> > > base
> > > >> > vocabulary (functions) and REPL in ~1000 assembler instructions,
> and
> > > the
> > > >> > full vocabulary in another 10kbytes or so. It has been a lot
of
> fun.
> > > >>
> > > >> This is the point where you got my attention 110% ;-)
> > > >>
> > > >> > This little puppy will go for one more round of prototypes next
> > week,
> > > >> as I
> > > >> > want to add an external watchdog and tiny prototyping area for
> maker
> > > >> > community. Then I intend to make a field test with 100 units
or
> so.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > So, why am I telling you all this?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > First of all, these guys will report the temperature back to
a
> > central
> > > >> > server every 15 minutes or so. And the management system on the
> > server
> > > >> is
> > > >> > written with Zest. The rest is with Grafana and ElasticSearch.
I
> am
> > > >> > considering trying to build a business around data capture,
> > > aggregation,
> > > >> > analytics and visualization. Anyone interested to join?
> > > >>
> > > >> I'd love to chat about what you've got in mind.
> > > >>
> > > >> > Secondly, I am looking for volunteers for my field test. It will
> > > >> probably
> > > >> > happen in April or so. If you participate, you will receive a
USB
> > > >> powered
> > > >> > sensor as seen. Plug it into power somewhere for 6 months, connect
> > to
> > > it
> > > >> > over WiFi, configure it to use your WiFi router over a simple
web
> > > >> > interface, and keep it powered for 6 months.
> > > >> > If there are problems, I might ask for reboot. Hopefully not
any
> > > >> firmware
> > > >> > upgrades.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'd love to help. More so than that -- I'd love to tinker.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Roman.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > > http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
> > >
> >
>

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