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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoli...@apache.org>
Subject Re: new forrest live site
Date Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:03:11 GMT
Personally I don't care for this.  It abstracts the user from the community
too much.

On 7/17/03 9:47 AM, "Tetsuya Kitahata" <tetsuya@apache.org> wrote:

> Beutifully Designed, High-Quality Products can be 'included in
> Out-of-the-Box 2.1' :D
> 
> cf. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/elsewhere.html#20030715.1
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:18:52 -0400
> (Subject: Re: new forrest live site)
> "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoliver@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> Tetsuya, 
>> 
>> After being here for awhile you get a certain cynicism about what that crowd
>> promises versus delivers.  I'd rather have something we maintain that WORKS
>> and we can fix than something they maintain that is always broken..
>> 
>> Avalon culture: its beautifully designed if you can figure it out...it
>> throws null pointers on launch.
>> 
>> Velocity culture: its ugly and dirty...it also works.
>> 
>> POI culture: beautiful design, great unit tests, good documentation...we'll
>> optimize next release ;-)
>> 
>> -Andy
>> 
>> On 7/17/03 9:03 AM, "Tetsuya Kitahata" <tetsuya@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I completely agree with the things when poi-build used Centipede.
>>> 
>>> For me (translator), it was a pain, too. PAIN PAIN PAIN!!
>>> I had to learn how to deal with Anakia (Velocity and Ant, XSLT), Maven
>>> and Centipede. Unbelievable!  ... Jakarta is missing *consistency*
>>> 
>>> But, imagine. All the avalon, xml. ws-projects are using forrest and
>>> forrest bot.  ... If we fail building the site and it is due to the
>>> bugs of forrest, all the xml, ws, incubator-sites also fail buiding the
>>> sites!! We do not have to investigate the root of the *evil* ! :D
>>> 
>>> Simple.... I love these kind of simpleness and smartness.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:46:38 -0400
>>> (Subject: Re: new forrest live site)
>>> "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoliver@apache.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> If he follows through which isn't a given.  You're taking this as a single
>>>> case.  I'm thinking the next time...and the time after than...and 3 weeks
>>>> after that ;-)
>>>> 
>>>> Big pain.  Drives me nuts.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/17/03 8:45 AM, "Tetsuya Kitahata" <tetsuya@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry, Andy. I could not understand what drove you nuts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think things will be very simple. Jeff offered us the patches for it,
>>>>> and we can accept them. So, we can build the poi website as well as
>>>>> all of the xml.apache.org sites and incubator, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For me, this seems very simple.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:35:42 -0400
>>>>> (Subject: Re: new forrest live site)
>>>>> "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoliver@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Man this drives me nuts.  That¹s why I didn't want to use forrest.
>>>>>> Lessons
>>>>>> learned from Centipede: the more dependencies your build has the
more
>>>>>> often
>>>>>> it breaks.  $20 says they never really make it to 1.0.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You wonder why I constantly ask "do we need this dependency" when
someone
>>>>>> tries it?  Because its a PAIN IN THE BUTT to manage dependencies.
 Every
>>>>>> dependency adds a brittle link.  I like POI to stay simple and layer
the
>>>>>> dependencies on top of it rather than under it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Andy
> 
> 
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-- 
Andrew C. Oliver
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