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From Pavan Vadavalli <pavan.vadava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: First impressions of a wannabe adopter
Date Tue, 25 Sep 2012 22:11:34 GMT
Hi Greg,
In your email,I can see some reflections of myself around an year back,
especially one of the things where you are blocked, to be able to playfully
move around bxml and java code and understand how this whole thing works

One approach that helped me a lot to move on and break open the chest of
puzzle was to debug the Pivot framework itself.

I wrote some simple Sysouts in the BXMLSerializer, to throw some light on
what it is doing , what properties its picking up , what setters its
invoking,while traversing the bxml and finally giving me the Object.

This helped me a lot to understand the intricacies without much needed
Pivot Documentation (btw, i believe code speaks more than Documentation,
just a personal belief)

Swing is ok, but your next steps towards java based GUI implementation Java
Fx also has the similar implementation of Bxml, (courtesy Greg Brown :))
and as time moves on...

Now my own project has around nice framework on the top of Pivot, has two
big implementations of this, has around 300+ BXML files + similar number of
code implementations, couple of Theme overrides.

I am currently prototyping a Caching Module to pool the GUI objects with
BXML as the Object Factory.

Well, i don't say it was easy but it was pretty worthwhile attempt i have
made to use the framework after around 3-4 months of looking around 5-6
options that provided Flexibility to create new or extending GUI
components, easier framework for Rich GUI applications deployable over
http, open source to name a few.

my sincere advice, just give it some more debugging to break it open and
you would suddenly realize, it becomes like a toy :)

I hope my experiences help ..
and Yes i do accept..Pivot has a long way to go..to make it more robust and
developer Friendly Framework..

Thanks and Regards,

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Greg Brannon <greg.d.brannon@gmail.com>wrote:

> **
> Talented Pivot Developers, Users, and Supporters,
> I like Apache Pivot, but I want to like it even more. I want to know it.
> I want to be able to use every class and method of it, explore it, know the
> ins and outs of it; know where it excels, what its limitations are, and
> write a challenging project with it. If I don't know how to do something
> with Pivot, I want to be able to click on a link or (if I have to) pick up
> a reference that has the info I need to figure it out. But at the moment,
> my experience with Pivot has not left me with confidence that I can know
> Pivot well enough to be successful using it.
> Believe me, I've tried. I worked through every tutorial, writing minor
> variations for each, moving code around, using different components,
> exploring the various ways to write action handlers. I used the Component
> Explorer, wondering, "Why aren't the major containers, like Window, Frame,
> Sheet, etc. included?" I've studied the API, learning the details I could
> for most every element of the Framework I've used throughout the tutorial
> experience.
> Then I struck out on my own. I wrote some basic interfaces in bxml, toying
> with ideas I have for a project I'd like to write in Pivot. Those went
> well, they looked okay, I've learned to like the bxml interface design
> approach - in fact, I don't want to give it up - but there were nagging
> questions I couldn't answer. "Be patient," I told myself. "Keep plodding
> along, and the details will come."
> Then I gave myself an assignment I thought might answer some of the
> nagging questions: Take an interface I'd already designed in bxml and
> rewrite it completely in Java. The interface included a Frame with a
> MenuBar, 2 MenuBar.Items, each with a Menu with 2 Menu.Items, Border,
> TablePane with columns and rows, BoxPane, and a couple Expanders. No
> function, just the shell of an interface.
> I couldn't do it. I tackled the task, incrementally writing each part in
> the same order as listed above but got stuck early on at the MenuBar and
> Menus. I could not find the information I needed to accomplish what should
> be a relatively (I thought) simple thing.
> I could accept that maybe it was a stupid idea. Why write an interface
> completely in Java that can be defined easily in bxml? I don't know. Why
> not? Shouldn't I be able to? Or if it's not possible, shouldn't that be
> documented somewhere? I could have accepted it if I thought it were true,
> but I don't. So I walked away from Pivot, thinking what I wrote in the
> first paragraph.
> So that I don't come across as just a complainer, I'm volunteering. I'm
> still excited about Pivot's potential, I believe in it and am impressed by
> Apache's projects overall, and I'll help in any way I can to improve
> Pivot's packaging to enable it to be more widely adopted. But I shouldn't
> bound or limit my offer to help. I'll simply do whatever I can to help,
> period. Just let me know what I can do.
> Until Pivot's documentation or usability improves, I'll work on my project
> using plain ol' Swing.
> Greg Brannon
> Hughesville, MD USA
> (443) 684-2064

Thanks and Regards,

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