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From Noel Grandin <noelgran...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Hard to implement ScalePane
Date Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:31:46 GMT
Bill van Melle wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:31 AM, Noel Grandin <noelgrandin@gmail.com <mailto:noelgrandin@gmail.com>>
>     I'm not sure I really see the need for this feature, outside of gee-whiz demo videos.
> I don't need it in its full generality, and I have no intention of putting something
with scrollbars into a ScalePane.
>  But an autoscaling component is useful in an app where if the user reshapes the window
to be bigger, you can
> seamlessly make your components bigger to take advantage of the space.  E.g., imagine
a photo browser, where you put
> thumbnails in a GridPane, and they get bigger when the user makes the window bigger.
 Well, we can do that already in
> Pivot, because ImageView scales automatically if you want it to.  But suppose instead
of just image thumbnails, you've
> got a more complicated widget in there, and you would like its pieces to stay in the
same relationship to each other,
> because you designed an appealing layout for them.
> So I'm trying to see if I can do something nontrivial with this, but I really don't need
it to work in its full
> generality.  I'd like tooltips to pop up in the right location.  I'd like it to be that
if a component (say a button
> or a hyperlink) responds to mouseover by changing color, that it still works that way
when scaled.  For my immediate
> application, I don't need Expanders or Sliders to work, but I brought them up in my message
to give a sense of the
> wide range of things that you'd need to have work in a "real" implementation of ScalePane.
> For what it's worth, WPF has transforms built in at the component level, so this kind
of thing is much more doable,
> but I'm sure people here are sick of my bringing up WPF.
No, that's fine, it's always nice to know what the competition is capable of. Like you say,
WPF has baked this in at a
more basic level, which is what I think that this feature would require.

Personally, I think you're just better off make your widgets scale nicely to the available
space in the first place.
I do that for all of mine.
It's a little painful in the beginning, and I'm happy to share some of my tricks, but once
you're done, it works very well.

>     If you want a challenge, and you want to improve the Pivot state of the art in layout,
Apple's new AutoLayout feature
>     has some nice ideas:
>     http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/UserExperience/RNAutomaticLayout/_index.html
> At first blush, it seems like much of what people would use their complicated constraint
language to do is already
> pretty easy (and more understandable) in WPF and Pivot.  Maybe I'm missing something.
It's nice because it encodes the constraints at a more human level, and it has nice failure
modes when the constraints
are unsatisfiable.
Our stuff is pretty good, but its always interesting to see what other approaches have to

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