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From Byrne Reese <>
Subject Re: decline and fall of modperl?
Date Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:54:59 GMT
It amazes me that this entire thread neglects to mention PHP. Granted,  
it started with a discussion about web frameworks, for which PHP does  
not have a strong footing, unless of course you count Drupal and  
Wordpress and the like among such "frameworks." But still, PHP cannot  
and should not be ignored.

In my experience in working on Movable Type, PHP is the single biggest  
source of competition on the market because it has the lowest barrier  
to entry and has the largest mind share. Say what you will about PHP  
developers, but they are a dime a dozen these days and  they are about  
as ubiquitous as HTML/CSS developers.

We were frequently confronted with this question/challenge by MT  
customers: "we can't find *affordable* Perl developers to help us," or  
worse, "we already have 10 people on staff who know PHP." What it  
boils down to for most companies is "can I develop this thing with the  
staff I have, or do I have to open up job reqs to get the talent I  
need?" or put simple, "how much is this going to cost me?"

Put into these terms, PHP always looks cheaper on paper because  
chances are there are people on staff who already know PHP, or the  
cost of hiring a good Perl programmer is too high.


On Mar 23, 2009, at 10:05 AM, Lupe Christoph wrote:

> On Monday, 2009-03-23 at 11:55:46 -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Octavian R√Ęsnita < 
>> > wrote:
>>> This is true. Less and less programmers use perl, and in most  
>>> parts of the
>>> world it is hard to find competent perl programmers.
>> Unless you have some evidence of this, stop spreading FUD.  The job
>> listings for Perl are strong.  They're huge compared to those for
>> Ruby.  Of course Java is massively more popular than either of them,
>> but that doesn't make the perl market small.
> Figures from the German freelancer market, Gulp (
> CVs (called profiles, a total of 60823 are available) with:
> Perl  5470
> Ruby   234
> Java 11261
> About two Java programmers perl Perl programmer. About 23 Perl
> programmers per Ruby programmer. (Germans are known to be
> conservative...)
> Projects (total 1317) mentioning
> Perl  54
> Ruby   4
> Java 153
> The programmer-to-project ratios are:
> Perl 101
> Ruby  58
> Java  73
> So, yes, Perl is a bad choice. It is the language with the most
> competition. Go for Ruby! There may be only four projetcs, but you  
> have
> less competition to fear! :-)
> Lupe Christoph
> -- 
> | There is no substitute for bad design except worse  
> design.                   |
> | / 
> me 
>                                                                           |

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