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From "Charles A. Monteiro" <>
Subject Re: Amazon
Date Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:05:12 GMT
sory to intrude but this just caught my eye, that statement is contrary to  
the evidence, lots of "smart" people did not , have not made the paradigm  
shift to OO, they say they do but many code in OO languages in very non OO  
ways. It was not mentioned but moving over from one OO language to another  
is not that easy walk in the part type of thing. Going from Smalltalk to  
Java for example, is not fun due to immense productivity differences  
between the two i.e Smalltalk being dynamic and having constructs that  
just make it so much easier to work with. I have played with Ruby, it  
borrowed a lot of its collection functionality from Smalltalk and seems to  
have full block closures but yet no where close as far as productivity.

anyhow, again I apologize for the intrusion, I realize that Smalltalk does  
not play in your world there. Although ironically, it does play well in a  
web world. Check out Seaside, a Smalltalk web framework which is getting a  
lot of play.


On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:35:18 -0500, Ronald Dai. <> wrote:

> Agree with this sentence  "Any developer with a solid object-oriented  
> background in ANY of these
> languages can move comfortably into ANY of the others within a few
> days.".....and  I  think any smart person with good common sense would  
> understand OO in no time...
> ________________________________
> From: David Scott []
> Sent: Tue 2/26/2008 9:06 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Amazon
> I've seen that too.  Some engineering managers have an absolute phobia
> when it comes to Perl.  But some of these same managers turn right
> around and extol the virtues of Ruby.  Go figure.  As far as I can tell,
> beyond a lot of syntactic sugar the two are virtually indistinguishable
> - except that Perl has been around longer and runs a lot deeper.  Same
> with Python.
> I think a lot of the debate boils down to culture.  Perl people tend to
> come from a sysadmin culture and are more comfortable working where the
> rubber hits the road.  PHP people tend to come from web dev, and really
> don't see the need to go too far beyond dynamic web pages.  Ruby and
> Python people tend to be Java refugees.  But the skill set involved in
> writing good code is no different, regardless of your background.
> Any developer with a solid object-oriented background in ANY of these
> languages can move comfortably into ANY of the others within a few
> days.  And none of them is Java - thank God!
> Also, remember that being a typed language does not make object-oriented
> design patterns any easier.  If you read the original "Gang of 4" book
> there is no mention of Java or Ruby - in 1995 both were in their
> infancy!  But they do talk about Smalltalk, which is untyped.  Try that
> argument the next time you hit one of these "perl is evil" majordomos.
> You won't get the job, of course, but it will brighten up your day.
> d
> J. Peng wrote:
>> I like Perl than others. once a company wanted to hire me and gave me
>> much higher salary than the current job. But one of their conditions
>> is not permit to use perl, but use python instead. I'm familiar with
>> python too, but I hate that clause. So I gave up that job finally.:)
>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Aaron Trevena  
>> <> wrote:
>>> On 23/02/2008, Michael Lackhoff <> wrote:
>>>  >  - Perl usage is declining. I read some statistics from O'Reilly and
>>>  >     they showed that Perl book sales are going down.
>>>  >     A few years ago the 'P' in LAMP clearly was 'Perl', now it is  
>>> 'PHP'
>>>  >     in most cases. Developers tend to go (even if slowly) where the  
>>> money
>>>  >     is.
>>>  Sorry, you're making wild claims there - yes ORA perl book sales are
>>>  down, but then that really doesn't indicate much - most of the ORA
>>>  perl books have been around for ages and are on their 3rd or 4th
>>>  reprint. Hardly a surprise.
>>>  If you look at other more useful numbers you can see that the number
>>>  of contributors to CPAN and perl projects in increasing, the number of
>>>  jobs is steady or increasing, and that actually it's all rather
>>>  healthy.
>>>  A.
>>>  --
>>> <>
>>>  LAMP System Integration, Development and Hosting

Charles A. Monteiro

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