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From David Scott <>
Subject Re: Amazon
Date Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:07:48 GMT
You're no doubt right, my ANY referred to the Perl/Python/PHP/Ruby 
family, not Java and Smalltalk.  I hadn't had my coffee yet, hope I 
wasn't too incoherent...


Charles A. Monteiro wrote:
> sory to intrude but this just caught my eye, that statement is 
> contrary to the evidence, lots of "smart" people did not , have not 
> made the paradigm shift to OO, they say they do but many code in OO 
> languages in very non OO ways. It was not mentioned but moving over 
> from one OO language to another is not that easy walk in the part type 
> of thing. Going from Smalltalk to Java for example, is not fun due to 
> immense productivity differences between the two i.e Smalltalk being 
> dynamic and having constructs that just make it so much easier to work 
> with. I have played with Ruby, it borrowed a lot of its collection 
> functionality from Smalltalk and seems to have full block closures but 
> yet no where close as far as productivity.
> anyhow, again I apologize for the intrusion, I realize that Smalltalk 
> does not play in your world there. Although ironically, it does play 
> well in a web world. Check out Seaside, a Smalltalk web framework 
> which is getting a lot of play.
> -Charles
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:35:18 -0500, Ronald Dai. <> 
> wrote:
>> Agree with this sentence  "Any developer with a solid object-oriented 
>> background in ANY of these
>> languages can move comfortably into ANY of the others within a few
>> days.".....and  I  think any smart person with good common sense 
>> would understand OO in no time...
>> ________________________________
>> From: David Scott []
>> Sent: Tue 2/26/2008 9:06 AM
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: Amazon
>> I've seen that too.  Some engineering managers have an absolute phobia
>> when it comes to Perl.  But some of these same managers turn right
>> around and extol the virtues of Ruby.  Go figure.  As far as I can tell,
>> beyond a lot of syntactic sugar the two are virtually indistinguishable
>> - except that Perl has been around longer and runs a lot deeper.  Same
>> with Python.
>> I think a lot of the debate boils down to culture.  Perl people tend to
>> come from a sysadmin culture and are more comfortable working where the
>> rubber hits the road.  PHP people tend to come from web dev, and really
>> don't see the need to go too far beyond dynamic web pages.  Ruby and
>> Python people tend to be Java refugees.  But the skill set involved in
>> writing good code is no different, regardless of your background.
>> Any developer with a solid object-oriented background in ANY of these
>> languages can move comfortably into ANY of the others within a few
>> days.  And none of them is Java - thank God!
>> Also, remember that being a typed language does not make object-oriented
>> design patterns any easier.  If you read the original "Gang of 4" book
>> there is no mention of Java or Ruby - in 1995 both were in their
>> infancy!  But they do talk about Smalltalk, which is untyped.  Try that
>> argument the next time you hit one of these "perl is evil" majordomos.
>> You won't get the job, of course, but it will brighten up your day.
>> d
>> J. Peng wrote:
>>> I like Perl than others. once a company wanted to hire me and gave me
>>> much higher salary than the current job. But one of their conditions
>>> is not permit to use perl, but use python instead. I'm familiar with
>>> python too, but I hate that clause. So I gave up that job finally.:)
>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Aaron Trevena 
>>> <> wrote:
>>>> On 23/02/2008, Michael Lackhoff <> wrote:
>>>>  >  - Perl usage is declining. I read some statistics from O'Reilly 
>>>> and
>>>>  >     they showed that Perl book sales are going down.
>>>>  >     A few years ago the 'P' in LAMP clearly was 'Perl', now it 
>>>> is 'PHP'
>>>>  >     in most cases. Developers tend to go (even if slowly) where 
>>>> the money
>>>>  >     is.
>>>>  Sorry, you're making wild claims there - yes ORA perl book sales are
>>>>  down, but then that really doesn't indicate much - most of the ORA
>>>>  perl books have been around for ages and are on their 3rd or 4th
>>>>  reprint. Hardly a surprise.
>>>>  If you look at other more useful numbers you can see that the number
>>>>  of contributors to CPAN and perl projects in increasing, the 
>>>> number of
>>>>  jobs is steady or increasing, and that actually it's all rather
>>>>  healthy.
>>>>  A.
>>>>  --
>>>> <>
>>>>  LAMP System Integration, Development and Hosting

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