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From Ed Grimm <>
Subject Re: Revitalizing Embperl
Date Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:21:21 GMT
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Marcus Doemling wrote:

> I think one key improvement would be to turn mod_perl into
> mod_embperl. What people really want when they are considering
> mod_perl is not better performing CGI scripts it is something like
> Embperl. I don't think these days there are a lot of people wanting to
> do pure CGI programming, so mod_perl by itself in not "useful".

Unfortunately, there are a number of toolkits which are built on top of
mod_perl; EmbPerl isn't the only one.  Furthermore, EmbPerl is useful
even without Apache, and thus without mod_perl...  I fully admit that it
is *more* useful with Apache, but EmbPerl can also be used to manage
template files outside of a web environment.

> Both mod_perl and Embperl would benefit if they were combined. As
> other people on this list I also have done a lot of investigation
> about other tools and Embperl to me is the clear winner and I believe
> most people would agree - if they ever tried it out.

Different tools are best suited to different tasks.  I find that EmbPerl
works best for the tasks for which I need a templating system, because I
usually have a very small amount of dynamic in my pages, and EmbPerl
allows me to do that with minimal impact on my otherwise static pages.
Other projects may be different.  For example, years ago, I helped a
friend with a mod_perl project that had very little static data; so
little that he had the opposite issue: he was looking for a way to
shield his mass of perl code from clumps of HTML (and, also, to allow
him to dynamically support different flavors of SGML and XML.)  I can't
remember what we eventually selected for him, but I do remember it was
quite definitely not EmbPerl.

> So how about Embperl joining forces with the mod_perl people. Is this
> a crazy idea or would it be possible. Imagine you just installed
> mod_(emb)perl and you're all set with Embperl - ready to create
> dynamic web pages. What a winner technology that would be - a PHP
> killer.

I would have no problem with an additional package that bundled the two,
and was maintained by both orgs.  I think that would be great.  However,
I feel that merging the groups and the products, and not releasing
stand-alone versions of either would alienate a number of current, loyal

For what it's worth, I am in the camp of using EmbPerl in a standalone
fashion.  I am only speaking about the mod_perl without EmbPerl camp
because I know it exists, and I believe strongly that it would also be
opposed to a full merge of the two products.


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