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From "Hall, Philippe" <>
Subject RE: Some philosophical questions
Date Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:35:05 GMT
Nice response, Gerald.  I think you've done a fantastic job with EmbPerl.  We can't expect
you to be the only developer, only source of documentation, and the primary marketing force.

Since we don't have an O'Reilly book, why don't we make our own?  The community could start
a Wikki.  The Wikki would cover EmbPerl documentation and application, specific installation
instructions, FAQ, mod_perl and even perl itself (as they relate to EmbPerl).

Philippe Hall

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Richter [] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:00 AM
Subject: RE: Some philosophical questions


A lot of these things have something to do with the man power we have. For
example maintaining backwards compatibilty: My test scripts tests Embperl
against about 25 different Apache/mod_perl/perl versions/combination/linkage
styles (only on Linux, not regarding Windows, xxxBSD, etc.). Everytime I
make a change, I have a good chance that it breaks one of these
combinations. Also I try to keep all this stuff working, because I know
people outside still using it (and I use it too; One of my production server
still has Perl 5.005 and it works :-), at some point I decide to drop
support for some old stuff, because I just don't have the time to handle

I thinks it's necessary to have a break sometime (like going from Apache 1
to Apache 2), because otherwise you don't have any chance to have any
progress. Sometimes it's necessary to make incompatible changes, because for
example you made an error in the design of the old version and you want to
correct it. Also I tried hard to get all this stuff that works with Embperl
1 working on Embperl 2, there are some features that have changed slightly,
either because the original implementation was in a way that did not have
proven as good over time or it simply does not work together with the way
how Embperl 2 works internaly. That's always a trade off...

Back to advocacy, the problem is, that it is a lot of work additionaly to
createing the software itself. You have to create nice webpages,
documentation, FAQ you need to write articles (also outside of the Perl
community) etc. and here is the problem: Most of us have a daily job, not
much time left and everything is working as it should, why to spend time for
createing these things?

Somebody mentioned that there are more activities on Mason and TT. Part of
the problem is the community around them. As more people are engaging
themself the chance grows that the project becomes more visble (inside the
Perl community and outside the Perl community). Since Embperl is written in
C, it might be more difficult to supply patches, but enhanceing
documentation, writing articles etc. could be done by everybody. For example
I tried to get somebody who is maintaing a FAQ for Embperl. It would be
enought to just write down the answered questions from the mailing list, but
we don't have a Embperl 2 FAQ so far... Or the article at
Embperl needs to be updated to discuss Embperl::Object and other new and
important features. This is an outstanding issue for a long time, but nobody
cared so far...

Anyway this discussion is not new and there is a mod_perl advocacy mailing
list and a document about it:

Advocacy and marketing are very necessary things, but it must be done and it
takes time!


Gerald Richter            ecos electronic communication services gmbh
IT-Securitylösungen * Webapplikationen mit Apache/Perl/mod_perl/Embperl

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