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From Joe Schaefer <>
Subject Re: [mp2] PAUSE indexer issues
Date Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:04:56 GMT
Stas Bekman <> writes:

> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> Stas Bekman <> writes:
>>>Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> [...]
>>>>I'm asking if changing the Apache::Resource provider from mp1
>>>>to mp2 is really what _we_ want to do, now that we know CPAN
>>>>will not support multi-versioning prior to mp2's release.
>>> why not? Why mp1 should be favored above mp2?
>> It's not about favoritism, it's about stability.
> stability of what? 

Of CPAN.  It's not goodness to require other mp1-only CPAN 
modules to upgrade to mp2 on our timetable.  Such modules
on CPAN should continue to work as-is; in other words:

   If pre-existing (mp1) module Foo currently lists Apache::Resource as a
   dependency, and someone without preexisting modperl installation
   tells cpan to install the Foo module, the mod-perl tarball that CPAN 
   fetches should be mp1.

Why mp1?  Because that's what happened when the author uploaded 
Foo to CPAN.  That's what I mean by stability here.

> mp2.0.0 should be out in about 2 weeks and I think it's just as
> stable as mp1 wrt prefork functionality.

Agreed; it's CPAN's behavior I'm worried about.  In contrast
to Randal's position, I actually like the fact that the package 
names haven't changed much between mp1 and mp2.  But I agree with 
Randal that coexistence between mp1 and mp2 is very important 
(in fact I think it'll increase adoption, because people will be 
able to confortably compare the two instead of taking a 
"leap of faith").


>> I'm not completely convinced that this is a good idea,
>> so I'd like to see it discussed (again), now that we are reasonably
>> certain about CPAN's functionality.
> Autrijus mentioned that he will have time in January to make CPAN do
> the right thing. But since the discussion on p5p shows that nobody
> wants for things to change, and wait for perl6 to solve all the
> problems, I'm not sure what should I tell Autrijus now.

Me neither, but if we discuss things a bit more, we might be able
to find a reasonable compromise here.  Maybe a few small tweaks 
to CPAN will work for us (not sure what those would be yet), 
instead of the major restructuring that multi-versioning seems to 

> Oh well, I can spend only so much time on this futile issue. I'm
> moving on and letting others to figure it out.

I know how much time you've spent on this, and I'm 
very sympathetic.  Have you given any thought to
my p5p proposal about telling CPAN to index mp2's
modules as having an Apache2:: prefix?  If that
were somehow workable, and we changed the tarball's
name from mod_perl to mod_perl2, we might be able
to have mp1 and mp2 co-exist peacefully on CPAN.
Yes, this might create some headaches for new modules
targeting mp2 specifically, but the majority of gripes
now will certainly come from existing mp1 users.  Eventually
that dynamic will reverse itself, and that would be
the time to phase out mp1 from CPAN.  But not we're
not there yet, IMO [*].

[*]- A month ago, I checked on the netcraft/securityspace 
     apache2 adoption rates, and it was about 1/6 of all 
     apache installations.  *Many* people simply aren't ready 
     for apache2 yet, much less mp2.

Joe Schaefer

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