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From Stas Bekman <s...@stason.org>
Subject Re: [mp2] PAUSE indexer issues
Date Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:28:08 GMT
[...]
>>>I'm not completely convinced that this is a good idea,
>>>so I'd like to see it discussed (again), now that we are reasonably
>>>certain about CPAN's functionality.
>>
>>Autrijus mentioned that he will have time in January to make CPAN do
>>the right thing. But since the discussion on p5p shows that nobody
>>wants for things to change, and wait for perl6 to solve all the
>>problems, I'm not sure what should I tell Autrijus now.
> 
> 
> Me neither, but if we discuss things a bit more, we might be able
> to find a reasonable compromise here.  Maybe a few small tweaks 
> to CPAN will work for us (not sure what those would be yet), 
> instead of the major restructuring that multi-versioning seems to 
> require.

It's really not a problem of mod_perl specifically. mod_perl can be 
happily downloaded from:
http://perl.apache.org/download/index.html
It's big enough of an application that can be handled manually.
One could argue that it's most likely that a person will already have 
modperl installed before they will try to install a module that depends on 
it. But...

It's really a problem with other Apache modules like Apache-Scoreboard, 
which can't be reached from anywhere but CPAN. mod_perl-core was really 
just an example in that discussion. The problem is much bigger than just 
one module (including other modules which have nothing to do with modperl 
at all).

>>Oh well, I can spend only so much time on this futile issue. I'm
>>moving on and letting others to figure it out.
> 
> 
> I know how much time you've spent on this, and I'm 
> very sympathetic.  Have you given any thought to
> my p5p proposal about telling CPAN to index mp2's
> modules as having an Apache2:: prefix?  If that
> were somehow workable, and we changed the tarball's
> name from mod_perl to mod_perl2, we might be able
> to have mp1 and mp2 co-exist peacefully on CPAN.

The name of the distro has no difference what so ever on the indexer.

In any case it's futile to try to think of any workarounds in the 
indexer/CPAN clients when the general attitude is "it's not our problem, 
so nothing is going to be changed".

> Yes, this might create some headaches for new modules
> targeting mp2 specifically, but the majority of gripes
> now will certainly come from existing mp1 users.  Eventually
> that dynamic will reverse itself, and that would be
> the time to phase out mp1 from CPAN. 

If enough users scream may be someone will be bothered to fix CPAN/PAUSE.
At the moment it's only Randal who screams, apparently his voice is too 
weak to make any difference, may be because he screams in the wrong 
direction. Reminds me of a bad idea of peeing against the wind.

I've been talking about this problem for *3* years, but no one wanted to 
listen to me.

 > Eventually that dynamic will reverse itself, and that would be the
 > time to phase out mp1 from CPAN. But not we're not there yet, IMO [*].

> [*]- A month ago, I checked on the netcraft/securityspace 
>      apache2 adoption rates, and it was about 1/6 of all 
>      apache installations.  *Many* people simply aren't ready 
>      for apache2 yet, much less mp2.

And that's exactly why workarounds shouldn't be sought after. Since once 
the trend reverts, those workarounds will bite you back. Solving it 
properly on the CPAN/PAUSE level now will provide a proper solution which 
won't break when the trend changes.


-- 
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman            JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/     mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org   http://ticketmaster.com

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