From dev-return-3387-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@openwhisk.apache.org Tue Mar 19 18:27:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 08828180626 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 19:27:24 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 90035 invoked by uid 500); 19 Mar 2019 18:27:24 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@openwhisk.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@openwhisk.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@openwhisk.apache.org Received: (qmail 90021 invoked by uid 99); 19 Mar 2019 18:27:23 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 18:27:23 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id EB610C0B2E for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 18:27:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.202 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TP3g77QkyLJU for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 18:27:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io1-f42.google.com (mail-io1-f42.google.com [209.85.166.42]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 0FF9C624A8 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 18:27:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io1-f42.google.com with SMTP id b9so12046587iot.13 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:27:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3NEuYLXhcJkABszAsNdnTAZHd03ym3lZAcI2GiqoJp0=; b=JmOx+rlm1nG0WnPFWQ6FAIIN2UzwsocQ7mUOHesNL1yx8qYVYmOEY9ldNzV6v6tFO4 9ZEflHwPPsJqeV/oDcQQ92NqxOZHUKNgrgJF1J3hx3+yk4DzDocat7LzOEskLz8HXbhp AvOZON7j5BSeI+hVlUS26Vs7t9oLc0me9JGIIIeA7s1//VxWHyfesMcawh6hY7HxEiBh RWVKHbFsO04NImCa+VdBwDb/0QrbLaS4UMD5hGh9mB6UmEWgNihH2Be1WDqFrPE1fhYC 04Xe4td7RlZzy4mTCvqg2kSR/wpQlNRHa3pe/mH1yxU7wFCzvStbB/mssbtZchSxMjz/ EnsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3NEuYLXhcJkABszAsNdnTAZHd03ym3lZAcI2GiqoJp0=; b=I4GbBjkJoxxOVFhJAooMzrlfFhnimxH79exxJYXJSJoq4/np4O44NjDonEoc6WJ6rQ j/8HKByVwyK8BObmNUYsSI+dYkJpLsrHsPGhIP54NEA71ydIeVWUiQeMn2Lf/BuITaZz kmx8X4op3Cosdk/g5W6G5SUyRndJF/iG/hI+JTAeH8sA+LT5U0OYERPIj9tWxer+WFhk P2ipMwJgBCsjU3kwWzcSRTvUPOQx+Q95eXMNT3jei1y5TqhoEHZIWJryREbTz69r1n1q IvutgyGil0djiyy4RjjxSPE2aeJcDqHosr7w23BP36dfJEnTRYPvr0yxcQHd/YWQodpB W6NA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUn7yyuMtxvv2MZjlN7utRdYQbTDyKrP3d8C1Tt15tTLdleoBIb 6JRuEcKj+zTNbxEkKaR57m4JOiepPVmF3jA1sTyKxA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzOBDy6iUxC7HnbJkLg5Cr0L2VyjHKDHPwADNpOjuYQwGX6GDNdogK5tW9Fj5PdtYVpDowpH77ZIC6iKBj3I00= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b258:: with SMTP id b85mr2745152iof.122.1553020039963; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:27:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Matt Sicker Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 13:27:08 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator To: dev@openwhisk.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So I have some agreements with Bertrand here. I obviously don't work on this project full time (my full time work is involved in developing Jenkins), and the Slack digests, while useful, are nearly impossible to read whenever a large amount of discussion happens during a day, particularly because synchronous communication is mixed in with the typical development talk that would benefit most from being asynchronous. Another limitation I find there is that I can't exactly reply to digests, so having a longer term conversation that way doesn't exactly work. Suppose, for example, I'm a contributor from a timezone not typically aligned with the times most of the full time engineers work on this project. Then having a back and forth conversation on Slack can easily get lost in the history, particularly because I haven't exactly seen judicious use of threads, either (which are themselves limited to a single level of threading unlike email). The large amounts of unnecessary messages that come in with a digest make it much harder to follow the technical discussions compared to, say, the threads I've seen on dev@ and GitHub issues. This also makes it harder for anyone who didn't see the initial Slack thread to contribute to the discussion. In all, I'm very impressed by the maturity of this project so far. It's certainly a production-ready project from what I can tell, but I'm still concerned about the chat. This would still be a concern even if the ASF hosted Slack itself (which isn't currently possible anyways) or some other chat service. Basically, in a distributed OSS project like with ASF projects, I'd expect to be able to contribute outside work hours (e.g., nights and weekends) as a hobby, and having communications be focused in media such as mailing lists, forums, and issue trackers makes it much easier to keep up to date with things, filter out topics I don't care about, and maintain conversations over a period longer than a few hours or days. For a work comparison, do you bother reading all your missed Slack messages when you come back from a week or two of vacation? If so, you're much faster than I am at communication, and I'm already reading way too many mailing lists as it is. :D My suggestion as to how to improve this wouldn't be the daily digest. My suggestion would be to ensure any development conversations that take place on Slack should be recreated on the mailing lists. This can be based on or start from the digest or chat log, but coming up with a summary of what was discussed along with providing an easier to use anchor point for further discussion would go a long way toward helping address this disconnect. As we typically say over in Commons or the other more volunteer-driven projects at ASF: if it didn't happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen! On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 12:25, Michael Marth wrot= e: > > Matt, all, > > Strongly agree. > My understanding is that moving from ASF incubator to TLP is not (at all)= a statement about the technology but a statement about the community, its = diversity (in terms of stakeholders) and ability to carry forward the proje= ct. I agree with everyone on this thread that OpenWhisk has proven to have = achieved that mile stone > > (but it does not hurt the cause to say that the technology runs in produc= tion and is solid....) > > Cheers > Michael > > > > =EF=BB=BFOn 19.03.19, 16:56, "Matt Rutkowski" wro= te: > > Thanks Dave for raising graduation as a topic. > > To be clear... +1 (with stars) from me on moving to graduate... > > It is my belief that this project has reached a maturity level, with = credits to its devoted community, over the last 2 plus years to graduate. = It has been no small task to bring under Apache compliance the numerous rep= os. this project manages and to deal with the ever-changing landscape of Se= rverless and remain relevant as new technologies and projects continue to e= nter this space. > > IMO, no other Serverless project offers a complete open source FaaS p= latform solution that supports such a wide array of deployment choices, run= times, tooling (and I could go on and on) while striving to enable choice f= or via documented plug-in points for common platform integrations such as l= ogging, metrics and test tooling, but also, for very complex topics such as= load balancing, scheduling and container pooling. > > This project is has matured to a point, where it should be noted, tha= t we are aware it is used in several public production offerings as a Serve= rless platform directly or as the backing for FaaS integrations (such as fo= r API management or web hosting). > > If you cannot tell, I am all for moving towards graduation and (promp= ted seeing this thread appear yesterday) have cleared my day to complete fi= lling out the maturity model matrix on our CWIKI (see https://cwiki.apache.= org/confluence/display/OPENWHISK/Project+Maturity+Model) to the best of my = abilities and will be asking for comment/review/edits on a separate thread = once I complete my draft pass. > > In truth, over the course of the last 2 years, I have have truly witn= essed the community itself become a welcoming family that cares first and f= oremost about the code and improving and enabling it for its user base whil= e establishing friendships that transcend other affiliations. > > Cheers, > Matt > > > On 2019/03/15 22:06:38, "David P Grove" wrote: > > > > > > I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness= for > > graduation from the incubator. > > > > Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely i= n terms > > of code contribution. > > > > We've released a number of software components following the Apache= release > > process. We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" ac= ross all > > of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week). > > > > Overall I think the community is active. Communication on the proj= ect > > slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested = daily to > > the dev list. (See [2] for stats). > > > > There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, fore= most > > being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to t= he ASF. > > But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and st= art > > considering graduation in parallel. > > > > Please share your thoughts, > > > > --dave > > > > [1] > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e= 5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E > > [2] > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=3D= 103091999 > > > > --=20 Matt Sicker