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From Sobkowiak Krzysztof <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator
Date Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:13:43 GMT

At the beginning I'd like to write I like the job you do with 
development of OpenWhisk and
I like this platform very much. I was talking about it some weeks ago 
and may people were
interested in it. I hope you will be able to graduate soon and become a 

I see actually some problems with Slack too. It's a good communication 
channel, when you want
to discuss something quickly. I used it as well to discuss some 
questions with Rodric. And I liked
that Rodric sent a summary of our discussion to @dev. It worked like it 
really should work when
channels other than email are used for discussion.

But I see that not all discussions are summarized in dev@. The digests 
are good for archiving, but
it's difficult join a discussion in a specific thread, especially when 
the thread is old. The messages
in Slack are no more visible after some time (e.g. I cannot see today 
messaged older than 31st January,
I see following message "To see and search this channel's full history, 
upgrade to one of our paid plans")
With email threads it's easier to join the discussion for the particular 
thread or simply reference the thread
(e.g. by url of the thread)

You have also a huge amount of  know-how, tips and tricks and solutions 
in Github issues and pull requests.
They can be easily found when searching for problem solutions in Google. 
But it would be nice to have it on
the mailing list as well.

I agree with Matt's and Bertrand's suggestions. I think it will make the 
participation in this community
easier for people who prefer more asynchronous communication via mailing 
list. When we improve the
communication on the dev@ list I see no more big issues on the way to 
become a TLP.

Best regards


On 25.03.2019 11:28, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:27 PM Matt Sicker <> wrote:
>> ...My suggestion as to how to improve this wouldn't be the daily digest.
>> My suggestion would be to ensure any development conversations that
>> take place on Slack should be recreated on the mailing lists...
> I agree with the intention, but having to "recreate" conversations can
> be counter-productive, I'd rather say that any "important"
> conversation needs to move out of Slack into a place which is fully
> open (as in findable with a Google search), asynchronous and has a
> persistent URL.
> Git tickets or pull requests fit the bill for that IMO, but the
> problem is that they are scattered among multiple Git repositories and
> it's hard to follow them "from afar" while not missing important
> things.
> To me, the essence of "if it didn't happen on the dev list it didn't
> happen" is being able to follow the project without missing anything
> important by just subscribing to this list. It doesn't mean everything
> has to really happen here (which I understand would not be popular)
> but everything important has to be reflected here, one way or another,
> so as to raise people's attention.
> The automated Slack digests are useful for archiving things here but
> as Matt Sicker says not really usable to quickly skim things.
> I think the following should help convince the Incubator that this
> project is ready to graduate as far as Apache-style communications are
> concerned:
> a) Guidelines (on probably)
> on how to use Slack as opposed to more persistent and async channels.
> That's basically "anything important needs to be fully open and
> discoverable from the dev list, with a persistent URL", doesn't need
> to be complicated but should reassure the Incubator that the project
> is clear about this.
> b) Weekly news on this list about what's going on generally and which
> PRs and tickets one should look at to stay informed. Might be
> automated or semi-automated but I suppose some redactional content
> helps. As I suppose the "full-timers" on this project are all on
> Slack, maybe a bot that collects /news items and sends them once a
> week would make this easy?
> -Bertrand
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect, Integration Architect
Apache Software Foundation Member (
Apache ServiceMix Committer & PMC Member (
Apache Incubator PMC Member (
Senior Solution Architect @ Capgemini SSC 

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