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From "Ben Browning (Confluence)" <conflue...@apache.org>
Subject [CONF] OpenWhisk > 2018-08-01 Tech Interchange - Meeting Notes
Date Mon, 06 Aug 2018 13:00:02 GMT
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<td id="batch-summary" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 15px 20px">There's <strong class="batch-section-summary">1 new edit</strong> on this page</td> 
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<td valign="middle" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse"><span class="batch-message"><span class="batch-user-fullname" style="font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold">Ben Browning</span> edited this page</span></td> 
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<td style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding-top: 15px; font-size: 14px"><span class="batch-message">Here's the version comment</span></td> 
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<td valign="middle" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse"><span class="batch-message"><span class="batch-user-fullname" style="font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold">Ben Browning</span> edited at <a href="https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=89066217" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">12:54 PM</a></span></td> 
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<td class="content-excerpt-pattern-container mobile-resize-text " style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 0 0 0 24px; padding: 0"> typos </td> 
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<td style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding-top: 15px; font-size: 14px"><span class="batch-message">Here's what changed:</span></td> 
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<td class="content-excerpt-pattern-container mobile-resize-text " style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 0 0 0 24px; padding: 0; padding: 10px"> <p class="diff-context-placeholder" style="margin: 10px 0 0 0; margin-top: 0">...</p> 
<ul class="diff-block-target" style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li> <span>Main/core OpenWhisk</span>&nbsp;(Carlos//Markus/Tyson, etc.)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li> <a class="external-link" href="https://github.com/apache/incubator-openwhisk/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&amp;q=is%3Apr+is%3Amerged" rel="nofollow" style="text-decoration: underline;; color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">https://github.com/apache/incubator-openwhisk/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&amp;q=is%3Apr+is%3Amerged</a> </li> 
<li> <span>PR Review: </span>No update</li> 
<li> <span>Runtimes updates</span>: No update</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>Scheduled topics</span> <br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li> <span>Matt Rutkowski &amp; Priti Desai -&gt; Website update</span> <br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Matt thanks Priti for all the work she has done, esp. on Documenation page, creating a one-stop experience against 3 roles: Operator, Developer (many sub roles) and Contribs.</li> 
<li>Matt demos on 3 browsers and multiple form factors<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Goals: lossless data, min. info duplication, BUT provide a guided experience with the same presentation and gentle “hand off” to deeper resources.&nbsp;</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Chetan: Should not highlight Compose, it may have issues?</li> 
<li>Matt: Priti investigated all options and chose most reliable, we have many options which one should we feature that works reliably on most platforms?</li> 
<li>Priti: could not get Vagrant running on Mac... took very long to start</li> 
<li>Ben: Katacoda is a good tool for developers to try stuff on...<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li> <a class="external-link" href="https://www.katacoda.com/" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">https://www.katacoda.com/</a> </li> 
<li>"Interactive Learning and Training Platform for Software Engineers"</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Carlos: could not figure out to use free for open source</li> 
<li>Matt: Would need to be accepted by Aache, and allow donation that apache can govern/admin.</li> 
<li>Ben: RH has some agreement, will look into more</li> 
<li>Dom:&nbsp;Is it supposed to have “provider” and “supporter” sections in community tab?</li> 
<li>Matt:&nbsp;Dom, we have not done that yet as we have not had time to distinguish (by defn and consensus) what a Provider is yet</li> 
<li>Matt: PR will dorp today, please comment, Priti and I will make time over next 2 weeks to address all comments/issues</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>Ben Browning/Markus Thömmes - Update on Knative</span> <br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li> <span>Ben:adds on-top of Kube</span> </li> 
<li>Ben: 3 comps. build, eventing and serving</li> 
<li>Ben:<span class="diff-html-removed" id="removed-diff-0" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ffe7e7; text-decoration: line-through;">“build” </span><span class="diff-html-added" id="added-diff-0" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ddfade;">“eventing” </span>inspired by Triggers, Rules and Actions</li> 
<li>Ben: ideas/<span class="diff-html-removed" id="removed-diff-1" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ffe7e7; text-decoration: line-through;">conpets </span><span class="diff-html-added" id="added-diff-1" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ddfade;">concepts </span>include: "serving", “spin up”, “scale” and “idle” images</li> 
<li>Ben: general goal is to “make Kube a better place to run Serverless”</li> 
<li>Ben: we should look at knative for our own Kube deployments/ingratiations<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>expect majority of innovation to take place in knative</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Markus: working on a prototype for running on knative now</li> 
<li>Markus: my design prop. from 2 weeks ago, have revision pending on prop. to better draw a picture how we could leverage the arch. changes to work on Knative</li> 
<li>Rodric: have you thought about why "OW on knative" is better than on raw Kube?</li> 
<li>Ben: reality today, prob. not…<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>cavaet, OW on Kube means diff things…. most perf. way today is to talk to Docker daemon, but that is not a great design and uses Kube’s mgmt. and <span class="diff-html-removed" id="removed-diff-2" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ffe7e7; text-decoration: line-through;">scsaling </span><span class="diff-html-added" id="added-diff-2" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ddfade;">scaling </span>efficiently</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Ben: our Kube/Docker is differnet in Red Hat I cannot talk <span class="diff-html-removed" id="removed-diff-3" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ffe7e7; text-decoration: line-through;">dieectlyl </span><span class="diff-html-added" id="added-diff-3" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ddfade;">directly </span>to the daemon… we need to unify under one way to access/run on kube, this could be the way forward</li> 
<li>Ben; goal this is a “future play”, would not increase perf. today..</li> 
<li>Markus: assume we might get some innovation from knative in future</li> 
<li>Markus: <br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Perf. of Serverless platform &amp; abstractions a Serverless platform gives you are the 2 major <span class="diff-html-removed" id="removed-diff-4" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ffe7e7; text-decoration: line-through;">considerationsPerf</span><span class="diff-html-added" id="added-diff-4" style="font-size: 100%; background-color: #ddfade;">considerations Perf</span>: knative, is built around deploying images and containers, whereas in OW we deploy source code…. this allow us to use stem cell/pre-warm containers which is not yet supported in knative.<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>goes for other similar offerings (work at container granularity)</li> 
</ul> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Markus: this “warm” notion is not generally avail. apart from OW</li> 
<li>Rodric: containers per Function… is not granular, there is still a “why” question that knative does not solve, in large multi-tenant env. &nbsp;the mgmt. needs to considered as inefficient</li> 
<li>Rodric: my early analysis, OW is what knative wants to be… as we drive concepts thru knative (expected)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>is there a way the OW comm. and project is recognized for that???</li> 
<li>How do we publicize the OW contributions and relationship?</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Ben: No idea on recognition,<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>1:1 mappings of ideas rule:subsc., feed:feed other concepts really map well…</li> 
<li>knative is a set “building blocks”, OW is the whole package</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Ben: have been prototyping, how we align a runtime that can use OW or run on knative<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>will provide links in chat on my work…</li> 
<li>those demos are powered by the prototype at <a class="external-link" href="https://github.com/projectodd/kwsk" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">https://github.com/projectodd/kwsk</a> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Daisy: has closed integrations Istio, Prometheus, Kibana, logging etc.<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>knative has better monitoring and traffic mgmt.</li> 
<li>regardless OW needs to improve our dashboards, and user mgmt.</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Rodric: good point, OpenFaaS has similar integrations…<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>we left “large chunk” for Providers to do themselves</li> 
<li>should have “out of box” help for operators</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Ben: not sure ow OW can advantage knative without being “all in” on knative…<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>we cannot adv. knative as we exist today</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Markus: where do we draw lines (or abstraction layers)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>personally believe we can have an execution layer and user layer on-top o</li> 
<li>e.g., our OW API can be one layer (switch out to knative, mesos, other)</li> 
<li>my proposal revision (working on) will show these ideas…</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Dave: agree w/ Marks<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>but as we focus on Kube, as comm. moves to knative, we have to look at Scala (and control plane) to leverage knative (</li> 
<li>Docker compose stuff will need replacement as well</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Ben: in add. to Markus, what if OW APIs and tools became the std. for depl. and interacting with Knative…<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>what would that mean as OW for future project?</li> 
<li>API/tooling/packages (all that talk to controller)…<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>spin these off?</li> 
</ul> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Rodric: we did it right, these things should happen</li> 
<li>Carlos: knative naming is its own, we tried to influence, but not much luck, but OW idioms exist; should protect OW mindshare around this...</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>Rodric Rabbah -&gt; CVE/Security update (up to 5 minutes)</span> <br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Rodric: (shares screen):<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>reported to “private” in June with example of exploit (PureSec); followed Apache guidance/process</li> 
<li>CVE issued 2 weeks ago (will walk thru mitigation)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Just in case you want more details <a class="external-link" href="https://youtu.be/Sa-G57V8Iu0?t=6m1s" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">https://youtu.be/Sa-G57V8Iu0?t=6m1s</a> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Vulnerability was in user space<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Fx that does not apply basic security eng. is vulnerable</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Medium blogpost example shown and article posted as well (linked in Slack)</li> 
<li>Shows example:<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>could do many things like fetch code, hijack parms, etc.</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Carlos: would like to update blog with “replace an executable” where “exec” can be replaced entirely</li> 
<li>Rodric: just wanted to emph. security should be considered</li> 
<li>Thanks Rob Allen for fixing PHP runtime</li> 
<li>Rodric: fixed all runtimes to block /init exploit (re0init fixed in skeleton), added std. test suite to test runtimes for vulnerabilities (for runtimes)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>named: “basic action runner tests” (for runtimes)</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Rodric: all curated runtimes now run this test suite</li> 
<li>Rodric: noted that using these tests we found that the PHP runtime had a vulnerability with large payloads and fixed&nbsp;</li> 
<li>Carlos: background processes can be an issue as well</li> 
<li>2 CVEs issued (due to 2 different repos. <br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>even though there has not been an official Apache release, but opened CVEs as well since project is mature and has known users/consumers</li> 
<li>Should build/run latest Docker images and runtimes</li> 
<li>IBM Cloud Functions for example rolled out these fixes</li> 
</ul> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>Release process:</span> (Matt/Vincent)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Justin: please VOTE on Vincents email thread for CLI release</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>Mesos/Compose/Splunk update:</span> (Dragos/Tyson)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>No Update</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>OpenShift update:</span> (Brendan/Ben)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Brendan: not much to update<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>bunch of work at Red Hat over last 8-10 months&nbsp;</li> 
<li>we have scripts to deploy on OpenShift working with Dave Grove to eliminate “custom” images (Docker) for all deployments/builds</li> 
<li>Have initial code drops, working on getting workin on these non-custom images</li> 
<li>Over time we want to align with other repos like Kube to have shared images we can all build from</li> 
<li>Ben: main goal, move OS customizations out, working on permissions/openings now<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Kube/OS sharing is first order goal</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li>Carlos: are these image mods for invoker/controller?</li> 
<li>Ben: mods, to most images incl. invoker controller, providers, couch, etc.</li> 
<li>Brendan: need to figure out permissions</li> 
<li>Carlos: would like to discuss more on this later</li> 
<li>Ben: figure out remaining delta and remove over time</li> 
</ul> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>Kubernetes</span>: &nbsp;(Dave Grove/Daisy)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Dave:<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>Split into 2 helm charts, 1 for core, 1 for providers (org'ed as subcharts)&nbsp;</li> 
<li>PR from Daisy</li> 
<li>Flex. to install providers on diff cluster if they like</li> 
<li>Helm charts on Kube engine also a new contrib.</li> 
<li>Community jumped-in and fixed env, vars. positive notes</li> 
<li>Docker files, optimizations, got rid of lots of “custom” Docker images</li> 
<li>suggest we push up into core project, a base/core iamge that has everything needed for ANsible istnalls already naked into base image</li> 
</ul> </li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>API</span> <span>Gateway</span> (Matt Hamann/Dragos)<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>No update</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>Catalog</span>/<span>Packages</span>/<span>Samples (anyone)</span> <br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li>No update</li> 
</ul> </li> 
<li> <span>Tooling</span>/<span>Utilities</span> (Carlos (CLI), Priti/Matt (wskdeploy))<br> 
<ul style="margin: 10px 0 0 0"> 
<li> <a class="external-link" href="https://github.com/apache/incubator-openwhisk-devtools/pulls" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">https://github.com/apache/incubator-openwhisk-devtools/pulls</a> </li> 
<li>No update</li> 
</ul> </li> 
</ul> <p class="diff-context-placeholder" style="margin: 10px 0 0 0">...</p> </td> 
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