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From Vincent Juliano <>
Subject Re: Being Good, was: RE: Reading and Exporting spreadsheets--another commentary
Date Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:35:31 GMT
You're exactly the people he's talking about.  Unfortunately you broke a resolve and responded.
 His points are well taken. Perhaps your MOM didn't teach YOU to say nice things or be quiet.

I am very old and probably out of my depth with all the new young  whippersnappers but Good
manners have never gone away. There's just a lot of people who cannot incorporate  Binaural
with social grace.

On Jan 7, 2014, at 3:31 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 11:09:55PM -0500, Think wrote:
> I seldom reply to trolls but I'll make an exception in this case.
>> I have been quietly watching the notes back and forth and have only once or twice
ventured into the writing and reading space of this list. Once, someone told me I digressed
too much and that I was wrong for having bothered everyone with my verbiage.
> True.
>> I was like "wow, dude. I thought the listserv was for talking about the product."
> Again true. Get it?
>> Since then, I have been watching and reading.
>> Personally, I am disgusted at how many of you treat each other.
>> I am an advocate for disabled people. I "yell" at people for a "living" (I don't
get paid for it so I have to use the "".) And even I refuse to stoop so low as to denigrate
someone for being frustrated or for having newbie problems.
>> I am 53. I coded in Fortran in 1974. I was on a mainframe before most of you knew
what a computer was. I hand coded HTML from the early 90's until 2002. I owned a brand development
firm. I ran five businesses. My largest project management job was a 14million$ project in
my early 30's. I am currently relearning CSS after going 12 years without coding a website,
because I was doing other things. I am learning it so I can direct our web designer and our
back end coder.
> My God you're wonderful.
>> Open office is interesting to me because our project, the elai Project, will be licensed
wholly under the Creative Commons License. So I wanted to specify one all purpose software
package for the project, and for every organization that adopts the package. Initially, elai
will help to make libraries completely accessible to disabled people. Hospitals are next,
with police stations, and many other locally, state and federally funded organizations following.
>> But after watching you guys take pot shots at each other and work from an "I don't
have to be nice to anyone" paradigm, I am about to throw in the towel on OO or alternatively
to warn elai Project participants to stay away from the listserv.
>> Be nice. Grow up. Get outside of yourselves and help each other. Focus on where you
connect and not where you disagree. 
>> And posters: don’t assume that everyone is here to help you. They have their own
lives and their own jobs and their own families and priorities. Be polite. Don't be a bull
in a china shop.
> In case you haven't already learned it, attitudes are learned early in
> life. You aren't going to change them by lecturing on this (or any
> other) list. Save your figurative breath and your time. If it's too much
> for you to bear, well.....don't let the door hit you on your way out.
>> And if more experienced users set a good example, it's more likely the newbies will
follow suit.
>> Likely this list needs a moderator. Does it have one? I am not stepping up for the
job, but someone with a sense of Zen and no fear of confrontation should.
>> If you want to flame me, you might want to think again. Most of your ISP's have a
policy of no spam/hate/scam/flame. I have reported people to their ISP's before and I will
do it again. There is a difference between free speech and hate speech. Hate speech is not
protected under the Constitution and your ISP's won't tolerate it either.
> Threats can get you kicked off the list if you continue.
>> Please stop treating each other like garbage. For none of you is garbage. Each of
you just comes from your own singular perspective, some of you are frustrated, some of you
don't understand how this works and some of you need some perspective.
>> Perspective, best served up warm.
> Sure thing, Mom.
> P.S. It appears that you're unfamiliar with the protocol of posting to a
> mail list re: over quoting.
> -- 
> Bob Holtzman
> Your mail is being read by tight lipped 
> NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor 
> Strangelove 
> Key ID 8D549279

Vincent Juliano

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