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From Rory O'Farrell <ofarr...@iol.ie>
Subject Re: Codes
Date Sat, 22 Jun 2013 14:35:11 GMT
On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 08:57:42 -0400
"Virgil Arrington" <cuyfalls@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Eric,
> 
> I would fully agree with you if OO worked like WP, but they work entirely 
> differently.
> 
> In WP, I can be in the middle of a paragraph and suddenly change some 
> formatting parameter. WP will then insert the new formatting code in the 
> middle of the paragraph where my cursor happens to be. Formatting is then 
> changed from that point forward. So, when my formatting suddenly changes, 
> and I don't know why, I have to search for the wayward formatting code. If 
> you delete the code, the document reverts to its last previous formatting 
> code, wherever it might be. WP then *requires* reveal codes simply because 
> of the way it inserts formatting codes anywhere in the document in a linear 
> fashion (much the way a typewriter might work).
> 
> OO (and other style-based programs) format on a paragraph-as-a-whole basis. 
> Formatting codes aren't inserted in mid-paragraph as they might be in WP 
> (unless it's character formatting like Boldface or Italics, which is clearly 
> seen onscreen). If your cursor is in mid-paragraph and you change a 
> paragraph formatting parameter, OO will apply that to the entire paragraph 
> *without* inserting a code at that particular cursor location. Formatting 
> codes aren't inserted in a linear fashion as they are in WP. And, formatting 
> isn't changed by deleting wayward formatting codes because there aren't any 
> wayward formatting codes. So, even if you had reveal codes, there would be 
> few codes to actually reveal. And the codes that would be revealed would 
> simply show the same thing that can be seen onscreen (this paragraph is 
> double spaced, that paragraph is indented).
> 
> Like you and others, I was originally put off by the lack of reveal codes in 
> OO. But, once I learned the different program paradigm, I realized that 
> reveal codes would be totally superfluous in a program like OO because 
> formatting is handled at the paragraph level, not in a linear stream of text 
> plus codes. Since learning how the program works with paragraph formatting 
> and, especially, styles, I've never found any need whatsoever for reveal 
> codes.
> 
> Virgil
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> >From: Eric Fenster
> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 8:24 AM
> To: users@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Codes
> 
> Whoopee! The absence of reveal codes is up for discussion again, and we 
> continue to have defenders of the absence of this great WP tool.
> 
> It allows SEEING where things happen and CHANGING them by deleting the 
> codes.
> 
> It is an ADDITIONAL convenience, not a requirement. Nobody is forced to 
> display the reveal codes window.
> 
> --- On Fri, 6/21/13, Virgil Arrington <cuyfalls@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Virgil Arrington <cuyfalls@hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Codes
> > To: users@openoffice.apache.org
> > Date: Friday, June 21, 2013, 2:24 PM
> > There *is* a "reveal styles." It's in
> > the Formatting Toolbar, where the style for the paragraph
> > containing the cursor is clearly displayed. Press F11 and
> > you'll get a list of all the available paragraph styles.
> > Right click on any one of them, click "Modify" and you can
> > see all of the formatting characteristics applying to that
> > style. Make any formatting changes you want and they will
> > apply to any paragraph having that particular style.
> >
> > As for other formatting parameters, you don't need a code to
> > tell you that a word is in Boldface as it will appear in
> > Boldface on the screen. Blue text will appear blue, and you
> > won't need a code to tell that. Now, you may not know *why*
> > the text is blue, but if you simply right click on the
> > applied paragraph style in the style list, you can then
> > change the character formatting to any color you want (the
> > same as you would with direct formatting, just within the
> > style itself). Once changed, all paragraphs having that
> > paragraph style will automatically change to the new color.
> > With WordPerfect, you'd have to go into each and every
> > paragraph or column frame and manually change each one to
> > the color you want. And, if you made a mistake in one of
> > them, you'd end up with inconsistent formatting. Of course
> > you could track it down with your reveal codes, but with
> > styles, you wouldn't have to.
> >
> > It's not rocket science, but I'll agree that it is not
> > intuitive to the typewriter model followed by WordPerfect.
> >
> > Let me give an example of the benefit of styles. Several
> > years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself to type a
> > 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel
> > Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the
> > project.
> >
> > As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He
> > wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting
> > mess, with stray tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent
> > formatting across chapter and section headings. Using WP's
> > beloved reveal codes, I began the task of reformatting his
> > 127 page novel. It didn't take long for me to realize it
> > would take days and days to wade through all of the
> > formatting codes inserted by WP.
> >
> > Instead, I saved the document as a plain text file,
> > stripping all formatting. I then loaded it into LyX, which
> > is a GUI LaTeX editor. LaTeX is the ultimate in styles-based
> > document processing as there is no other way to do things. I
> > applied the Part and Chapter styles, (called "environments"
> > in LaTeX speak) to the part and chapter titles, and then
> > inserted a fully formatted, numbered, and typed table of
> > contents with a couple mouse clicks. I set NO page
> > formatting parameters such as page margins, page numbering,
> > etc., as those were handled entirely by the Book template
> > (called "document class"). I then compiled the book and had
> > a fully formatted novel, complete with Title page, Table of
> > Contents, properly formatted right and left hand pages with
> > fully formatted headers with page numbers, etc. The entire
> > process took about a half hour. I surprised even myself.
> >
> > I could have done the same thing with OpenOffice's styles,
> > but they're not quite as fully automatic as LyX/LaTeX, so it
> > would have taken a bit longer, but not much.
> >
> > Yes, styles can be difficult to learn, much the same as
> > learning a new cable TV remote control. But once learned,
> > you'll appreciate all you can do with them, and you won't go
> > back to the typewriter (or it's only begotten son,
> > WordPerfect), just like I won't go back to rabbit ears for
> > my TV.
> >
> > Virgil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Tamblyne
> > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 5:29 PM
> > To: users@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Codes
> >
> > Hi, Patricia --
> >
> > Of course, you're going to be told -- and I can see that you
> > already
> > have -- that "you're not doing it right."  Use
> > styles.  Styles will,
> > apparently, take care everything, including promote world
> > peace, as well
> > as fix all that's wrong with your document.
> >
> > Perhaps if we asked for "reveal styles" instead of "reveal
> > codes," we
> > could get some progress on this issue.  The View >
> > Non-printing
> > characters doesn't help much unless what you're looking for
> > is carriage
> > returns/line-feeds, as far as I can tell.  It certainly
> > doesn't tell me
> > what styles are being applied to any given portion of the
> > document.  And
> > it doesn't show formatting codes, either.
> >
> > As an "old" WP user (and aren't we all, at this point?), I
> > argued
> > passionately for this "enhancement" long ago.  The fact
> > that we were
> > blown off then, and still are, is the reason I don't
> > volunteer my time
> > to this project anymore.
> >
> > The response to "use styles" doesn't solve the problem --
> > that being
> > that you can't tell where an applied style begins or ends
> > when you have
> > a problem.  Wait until you get a horizontal line under
> > all of your
> > paragraphs that you can't get rid of.  That's even more
> > fun!  :-D  You
> > can spend time playing Document Detective -- or just CTRL-Z
> > out of it
> > and come up with some other way to format your document the
> > way YOU want
> > to.
> >
> > As to your particular issue, this blue text is often
> > automatically
> > applied to email addresses and hyperlinks, and you can
> > change that under
> > "character styles."
> >
> > As for reveal codes -- don't hold your breath.  :-)
> >
> > Tam
> >
> > On 6/20/2013 6:54 PM, Patricia Hickin wrote:
> > > Is there any way to reveal codes in OO (the way you can
> > in WordPerfect)?
> > >
> > > I am having a problem with the following:
> > >
> > > I am preparing a list of books as follows:
> > >
> > > In a table of two columns, I insert an image of the
> > book cover in the first
> > > (a narrow) column.  In the 2nd column I put info
> > about the book: title,
> > > author, publisher & date.
> > >
> > > I have obtained the info from www.worldcat.org,
> > compiled a list of the
> > > books, copied the list into Notepad to strip it of
> > formatting.  Next I
> > > copied the list into an OO text document and formatted
> > it as follows:
> > >
> > > font Calibri  color black
> > > title: 18 point bold italic
> > > author & publishing info (two separate
> > lines):  15 point regular.
> > >
> > > For some reason, OO is changing the color of the
> > publishing info to blue.
> > >   I change it to black. but when I save
> > it the color switches to blue!!
> > >
> > > It is driving me crazy!!!
> > >
> > > Any ideas??  Thanks!!
> > >
> > > Pat
> > >

It is worth remembering that as well as Paragraph styles, OpenOffice has Character Styles,
which allow you to change character attributes mid paragraph.

If the WP lobby feel so strongly about not having "Reveal Codes", why don't they do something
about it and write an extension to do just that? 

-- 
Rory O'Farrell <ofarrwrk@iol.ie>

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