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From Dave Barton ...@tasit.net>
Subject Re: PMC FAQ update
Date Thu, 05 Mar 2015 18:40:36 GMT
jan i wrote:
> On Thursday, March 5, 2015, Dave Barton <db@tasit.net> wrote:
> 
>> jan i wrote:
>>> On 5 March 2015 at 11:42, Simon Phipps <simon@webmink.com <javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Dave Barton <db@tasit.net
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 10:02 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just updated the PMC FAQ page on the project website.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see this page has now been updated and the names of all the list
>>>>> moderators have been removed. Is there some new (unlinked) location
>>>>> where that information can be found? If not, should we add the
>> moderator
>>>>> names to the individual list information on the mailing lists page:
>>>>> https://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I also note that the [commit for this change][1] refers to a discussion
>> of
>>>> the rationale for the change - can anyone point me to the discussion
>>>> please?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Some of that discussion happened (partly wrongly) on private@
>>>
>>> Basically some of us (including myself) does not want to have our names
>>> published where it is not really needed or beneficial.
>>>
>>> Since we have and owner@ to every list, there are no need to publish the
>>> individual names.
>>>
>>> rgds
>>> jan i.
>>
>> With the exception of a couple of pseudonyms (real names known
>> internally), every Apache committer's name is published:
>> https://people.apache.org/committer-index.html
> 
> yeah but that does not tell which mailing lists we listen in on and a lot
> of other things we do, it does e,g. not tell that I am AOO Chair.

Rubbish! Another public page:
https://people.apache.org/committer-index.html#jani
Clearly and unequivocally states:
<Q> jani Jan Iversen corinthia, incubator, incubator-pmc,
infrastructure, infrastructure-interest, labs, labs-pmc, member,
openoffice, openoffice-pmc, pmc-chairs, tac-pmc </Q>

See also:
https://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#pmc-chairs

Sorry, but I don't get your point about "which mailing lists we listen
in on and a lot of other things we do". Who cares, but you make it
sounds like you have something to hide. Also, who are "we" in this
context, PMC members, project members, or everybody?

>>
>> Our "Mailing List" page states:
>> <Q> Each mailing list at OpenOffice has at least two human moderators.</Q>
>>
>> Without referring to "private" information you or the PMC may hold tell
>> me (off-list if you wish) who the TWO moderators are for the API mailing
>> list?
>>
>> Are we ashamed of who we are and what we do?
> 
> no way, but this is simply an information that has no relevance in my
> opinion.
> 
> If people want to tell the world what they do in such detail, they should
> publish it, we should not publish peoples names without the consent of the
> people.

It was published for years, so why now do we have something to hide?

> My concern is not so much having the list of names, but more that it is
> forced to participate. If people added themself to the list it would be ok
> because it would be their own choice.
> 
> rgds
> jan i

Again, I don't understand "forced to participate". Nobody is forced to
participate in this project by simply identifying the role they have
volunteered to undertake.

Your concerns are unfounded, Simon Phipps, myself and other moderators
openly publish our identities and email addresses on this list and other
public forums, so why would we become delicate sensitive little things
about our names being published for a useful purpose.

Cut to the chase:
You did not answer my question about the names of the TWO moderators for
our API mailing list because:
1. You don't know.
2. There is only ONE moderator for that list.
3. This information is not publicly available.

My reason for persisting with this somewhat trivial issue is that "we"
(those with an interest in project at large, not just Infra, the PMC, or
some other "sacred inner sanctum") would not have a ready source of
reference if moderation, for whatever reason, ceased. Unlikely in the
case of the dev list, but a definite possibility for the API list if the
one current moderator got run over by a bus.

If it will alleviate your concerns, I will post to the owner of each of
our public lists asking for an affirmative response to the question of
publishing moderator names on the mailing list page.

See also the post from Dennis, who summarises this in more succinct and
less abrasive terms.

>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> S.
>>>>
>>>> [1]: http://markmail.org/thread/l4yjh7gcgk5k6ist




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