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From Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Do not drop languages in minor releases
Date Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:11:11 GMT
On 4/30/14 12:28 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
> Am 04/29/2014 07:57 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Marcus (OOo)<marcus.mail@wtnet.de> 
>> wrote:
>>> Am 04/29/2014 09:47 AM, schrieb jan i:
>>>
>>>> On 29 April 2014 09:36, Jürgen Schmidt<jogischmidt@gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/29/14 9:20 AM, Tal Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I propose that, once a language reaches our release quality criteria
>>>>>>> (currently: UI translation at 100% and maintained), we do not
>>>>>>> drop it
>>>>>>> afterwards for the other minor releases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [...] I would remove unmaintained languages only when version
5.0
>>>>>>> comes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems reasonable, to me, Andrea, I'm not sure that removing a
>>>>>> language
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> major release should be so strict. What about removing a language
>>>>>> only
>>>>>
>>>>> when
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a MINIMUM% of it isn't translated (e.g., 10%)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> we had something like this before but defined a new rule to be 100% UI
>>>>> complete and I think this is quite easy and a good rule.
>>>>>
>>>>> The case Andrea described above should be more theoretical if an
>>>>> active
>>>>> community is behind a translation. We released Arabic with 3.4 but
>>>>> there
>>>>> was no active community and nothing happened later on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would still prefer the 100% rule. But anyway it's my personal
>>>>> opinion.
>>>>>
>>>> +1, not requiring 100% UI (which is quite easy to do for any
>>>> translator)
>>>> is
>>>> a dangerous path.
>>>>
>>>> Nobody can today say when we do the next major release (5.x) meaning
>>>> translations<   100% could be ongoing for a long period. For a minor
>>>> release, its typically only a handful of messages that are changed,
>>>> so it
>>>> not a big workload for any individual.
>>>
>>>
>>> However, from the view point of a normal user who just wants to
>>> update to
>>> the next version, it would be confusing why no localized install file is
>>> available anymore.
>>>
>>> So, from my side a clear +1 to keep these languages.
>>>
>>> How much we allow to be under 100% is just a question of definition (and
>>> agreement). ;-)
>>>
>>
>> We want quality releases.   % translation is part of quality, of
>> course.  But there are other aspects as well.  Certainly looking at %
>> completeness is easy for to measure, but it is not necessarily the
>> best criterion.
>>
>> We want to avoid a situation where a translation is rushed and done
>> poorly, in order to meet an arbitrary % goal.  I'd rather have a high
>> quality 95% than a low quality 100%.
> 
> You should have replied to my other mail. ;-) It seems we have the same
> direction of the vision.
> 
>> Of course, PMC members do not know all languages.  So we need to rely
>> on the translators and the local community.   Maybe we can make a
>> criterion from that?
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> If a translation is more than X% complete, AND if that language was
>> downloaded in the beta release more than Y times, AND the RC was
>> reviewed by the translator and Z other community members to vouch for
>> having usable level of quality, then we include it in a release.
> 
> Yes, sounds good.
> 
>> Or some other way of having the local community take ownership of
>> making this decision.
> 
> What about to include another AND:
> 
> AND ZZ the language has recent activity on Pootle.
> 
> Even when the language is a bit far away from 100%, with activity on
> Pootle we can be sure (somehow) that the language is maintained.

we should first streamline the process and have a better integration
process in place. Currently I am doing all then work but I am not
interested in doing more.

I will continue to integrate new languages and merge language back from
time to time but better would be if genlang can be finished (and I am
sure Jan needs help here and volunteers are welcome) or somebody else
steps up to support me ;-)

Juergen

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