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From Jürgen Schmidt <>
Subject Re: Pre-release IRC+video informal meeting?
Date Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:32:04 GMT
On 3/31/14 10:37 AM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
> On 3/29/14 5:29 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Mar 29, 2014, at 6:44 AM, Rob Weir <> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 7:14 AM, Andrea Pescetti <>
>>>>> On 27/03/2014 Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/14 1:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>> Is there interest for a "live" (meaning: IRC + video, like Google
>>>>>> Hangouts or similar) meeting to make sure that we (developers, QA,
>>>>>> Localization, Documentation, website...) are all on the same page
>>>>>> regarding the upcoming 4.1 release?
>>>>> we can try such a meeting but I don't see the benefit compared to a
>>>>> clear communication on the mailing list (can be of course improved).
>>>> The benefit would be: make sure that active volunteers have a chance to be
>>>> heard and to influence the release. We are doing good now; still, we can
>>>> better. See below for concrete examples.
>>>>> Either we do it in a more organized way and define exactly what we
>>>>> expect or I am not interested.
>>>> I am not interested in the other option. Well, maybe I misunderstood what
>>>> you mean by "organized", but for sure I would find it overkill that we have
>>>> to vote for someone to be in a call to represent a certain group (say, QA)
>>>> and vote on what the call topics should be. It's an informal meeting.
>>>>>> It wouldn't be a meeting where things are decided (we have the lists
>>>>>> that!), but merely a meeting where people can inform each other to
>>>>>> sure that all priorities are being addressed ...
>>>>> I am in favor of having such discussion mainly on the list to have it
>>>>> documented.
>>>> Note that it's more about being informed (about stuff that is already
>>>> somewhere on the lists), and discussion can follow on lists.
>>>> Maybe it helps if I make a concrete past example: the "Restore windows"
>>>> problem has been known
>>>> for two years. It only triggered on certain versions of Mac OS X and only
>>>> after a crash. Still it caused 500+ e-mails, and probably countless forum
>>>> posts and some enraged/lost users. In retrospect, we should have evaluated
>>>> it better.
>>>> How can we avoid the next "Restore windows", i.e., something that is known,
>>>> important to someone, already documented somewhere but that would deserve
>>>> better attention? It's important for OpenOffice as a project that active
>>>> volunteers feel that they can influence the release. And it is also very
>>>> good for OpenOffice as a product.
>>>> Now, the obvious answer is "Just place it in Bugzilla and nominate it as
>>>> release blocker". This doesn't always work. For a release blocker, for
>>>> example, you would require in most cases that a patch is available, and a
>>>> description that is purely technical can miss to state why it is important
>>>> to get it fixed before release. And if you look at who is nominating
>>>> blockers, you'll see that only a few people do that.
>>>> The IRC+video meeting is the best solution I can find, but anything else
>>>> that guarantees proper escalation would work for me. Just, asking people
>>>> simply follow the process is too demanding on volunteers and we need to
>>>> streamline it (another concrete example? we don't have 4.0 in Danish mainly
>>>> due to bad communication, since translation was completed before the 4.0
>>>> release but after the deadlines).
>>>> If you want yet another example... we already know that OpenOffice 4.1 is
>>>> going to have display problems for Gnome 3 users on Linux. Two bugs have
>>>> clearly been identified: no refresh on fields
>>>> and no scrollbars
>>>> ; the former has a
>>>> working patch by Andre and I'll nominate it as a blocker, but what about
>>>> latter? Does it make sense to nominate it even if we don't have a fix
>>>> available? Will a meeting where active people can report on what they see
>>>> the forums, lists etc help in making the assessment?
>>> We can always have a Hangout on our Google+ page.  But I think that is
>>> limited to 10 people and ties us to a specific time, making it more or
>>> less convenient to people depending on their timezone.  So I'm not
>>> sure it is much more inclusive.
>>> But you could make the argument that it is a best practice with Agile
>>> methodology for us to have "daily scrum" meeting to check in and
>>> review blockers.  But that could also be done via the mailing list,
>>> with a new thread each day, e.g., "2014-03-29 Daily Scrum".
>> As I read the other emails I was thinking that a bug scrub would be good. This would
allow a group to discuss bugs and issues. The goal would be a priority list which could then
be shared on list, debated. We can then commit ( agile term). Daily scrum then tracks the
progress towards the goal. The scrum master records the info. Scrum master can change from
day to day. It is clerical.
> we can stop discussion on such scrum or whatever meetings as long as we
> don't have more developers.
> Take a look on the issues that came in over the weekend, 124553 a crash
> on Linux when you select a table and some text below or before. I am
> really asking if anybody has used the Beta version on Linux and used
> form some simple tasks? And taking this issue as example should we
> really accept Linux issues as showstopper?
> Ok don't take me to serious but I hope you see my point. We have a
> problem but that can't be solved with such meetings.
> @andrea, my point is that I am not interested in an informal meeting
> without a special outcome. Issues of broader interest get attention if
> they are communicated on the list and we have no timezone issues.
> But we don't need a Beta in the future if such issues as above are not
> found over month.
> Nevertheless will be a new snapshot available later today (hopefully if
> the upload of the windows builds is fast enough).

I dropped the upload and removed all builds for Linux and Mac as well.
We will fix some serious issues an dI hope we can hold the Wednesday


> Juergen
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>> In any case, if a PMC member wants to take the lead on a hangout, and
>>> does not already have access to our Google+ page, let me know and I
>>> can give you manager access.
>>> -Rob
>>>> Regards,
>>>>  Andrea.
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