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From Rory O'Farrell <ofarr...@iol.ie>
Subject Re: Microsoft Censors OpenOffice Download Links
Date Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:44:03 GMT
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:39:16 -0400
Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Donald Whytock <dwhytock@apache.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Hagar Delest <hagar.delest@laposte.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> Objet : Re: Microsoft Censors OpenOffice Download Links
> >> >> Not to speak for them, but I suspect they would point out the fact
> >> >> that we there are over 100 Apache projects, and they all seem to do
> >> >> fine with distribution via the mirrors.
> >> >>
> >> >> Personally, I'd wonder where this rates with us in terms of priority.
> >> >> Compare to, say, forum stability improvements, code signing for our
> >> >> installers, and further buildbot coverage, where do torrents rate?
> >> >
> >> > Of course it's not a priority.
> >> > But think about the mechanism of torrent: once it's initiated, it
> >> spreads by itself without any input needed. I'm not sure we need powerful
> >> resources for the seeds, we can even limit the number of uploads I guess.
> >> And then let the torrent spread among users.
> >> >
> >> > A forum was not in the field of the ASF scope. The AOO forum is still
> >> doing and rather well, there is a lot of cooperation and feedback when
> >> information is forwarded from on side to the other. So why not make a
> >> torrent a first for ASF?
> >> >
> >> > Please remember that you're handling an office suite, it's not a niche
> >> program, it's something that is heavily popular, you tell it yourself when
> >> you inform the list about the millions downloads. Ubuntu offers torrents
> >> for example.
> >> >
> >>
> >> AOO is popular.  Torrents are not.  I bet that <1% of downloads were
> >> of torrent, when OOo had them.
> >>
> >> Remember, a common question from users is "I just downloaded
> >> OpenOffice and now I cannot find it".  So skill level of typical user
> >> is not ideal for explaining how to download via P2P.
> >>
> >> > If ASF does not want to do new things because no other ASF project has
> >> even tried, then I'm rather worried about the future. Especially when on
> >> the other side LibreOffice has a so efficient team, very good at marketing
> >> their project.
> >> >
> >>
> >> 1. Maybe ask LibreOffice how many torrent downloads they see?  That
> >> would be an interesting number to know.
> >>
> >> 2. This is not a question of avoiding doing something new.  It is a
> >> question of prioritization based on cost and benefit.
> >>
> >> 3. Torrents are not even new. They are old technology.
> >>
> >> 4. There is nothing to prevent someone from seeding a torrent for AOO
> >> today, right now if you thought it was important.  It does not need to
> >> come from Apache.
> >>
> >>
> > Infra could conceivably create torrents for every ASF distro file, probably
> > on an automated basis.  Were that to happen, the effort by the AOO TLP
> > would be nil and the effort proportionally related to AOO would be
> > negligible.
> >
> > Of course, this could take some significant setup effort on Infra's part,
> > and if only the AOO torrents were ever used someone might say, "Why are we
> > doing this for only one TLP?"
> >
> > It would be best if ASF could do it so as to add legitimacy to the torrent.
> >  Otherwise, if AOO itself was doing it, it would need to be on a
> > respected/respectable torrent server, such that we could point to it and
> > say, "That is the official AOO torrent."
> >
> 
> I think that's the key.  If it is to be considered "official" then we
> need sufficient control to ensure that it has not been tampered.  What
> we do right now is have Release Candidates on Apache servers, which
> are voted on and then copied onto another Apache server for archives,
> and then rsynced from that Apache server by SourceForge.  And all
> along we have the original digital signature files that can be
> verified.  So it is around as secure as we can go without taking the
> builds themselves right from Apache-hosted buildbots, which is the
> next logical step.
> 
> But honestly my low motivation for this is based on the fact that
> we're talking about a 150MB file, not a 4GB ISO image.  The typical
> user can download AOO in less time than it took me to write this note.
>  For me it takes longer to install AOO than to download it.  So in the
> grand order of annoyances related to AOO, the download time does not
> seem to rate very highly.
> 
> That's my personal opinion.  But the nice thing about Apache is this
> doesn't prevent someone else from moving this forward if they have the
> motivation.  Everyone is able to scratch their own itch here.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
> > Maybe a cheap 10gig VM?
> >
> > Don

With respect, Rob, we don't all live in fibre access broadband areas. I count myself lucky
in having 200KB/sec access; there are those who are still stuck with 56KB modems on bad dial-up
lines. My OpenOffice download is typically 12-14 minutes.


> 


-- 
Rory O'Farrell <ofarrwrk@iol.ie>

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