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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 22:01:59 +0100
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Subject: Re: Certified DEVs
From: Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com>
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
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As I said, let's not worry about the certification thing. I doubt it
is really worth the effort developing a formal certification program
for so few. It really has to be thousands of possible candidates to
make these things work and end users would be the only way of getting
those numbers. It is only to answer the simple question "How many
people are making or are likely to make significant coding
contributions to the project?"  (I don't think TDF has the first clue
about certification in general, it's just that happens to be where
they are identifying their main coders.) Perhaps Dave's svn authors
list would do it. Maybe its just not an issue. Just occurred to me
that if someone asked me how many people work on AOO code I wouldn't
be able to give any sort of answer.

On 9 June 2013 21:37, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 9 June 2013 20:35, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wro=
te:
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
>>>>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
>>>>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
>>>>
>>>> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand th=
e TDF process:
>>>>
>>>> From the page you cite:
>>>>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the C=
ertification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering S=
teering Committee.
>>>>
>>>> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translatio=
n):
>>>>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers=
 is for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily comple=
te nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of t=
he listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually assess if=
 the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements. If yo=
u notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us atinfo@documentfoundati=
on.org.
>>>>
>>>> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for li=
ke" comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
>>>>
>>>
>>> For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
>>> the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:
>>>
>>> http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight
>>>
>>>> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X =
commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported b=
y examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding the=
 person with the least commits who is on their list.
>>>>
>>>> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog pos=
t. This could also point to our full committer count to show that the proje=
ct values all contributions.
>>>>
>>>> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not compan=
ies that are contributing.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The other part is this:  what the market really needs is an easy way
>>> for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
>>> extensions or core, and be productive.   This is a need for good,
>>> up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc.  When that is in place
>>> then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
>>> are not also committers.  But until we've more fully enabled this
>>> larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
>>> merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice.  And
>>> that doesn't really accomplish anything.  It is just heaping titles on
>>> the same core rather than extending the reach.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>
>> It wasn't so much the certification part that seems important. More
>> that there are 26 people who are judged to be capable of (and probably
>> willing) to make a significant contribution to LO code. How many AOO
>> people can similarly be identified? Its just a simple thing if its
>> easy to present. I'm not suggesting anyone spend a lot of time on it.
>>
>
> I assume all LibreOffice developers are "capable" of contributing to
> OpenOffice, at least at the technical level.   Vice versa as well, of
> course.
>
> So if I were looking at a meaningful certification program and not
> just a project-specific marketing campaign, I'd probable look for a
> way to target the larger market, i.e., the combined developer base.
> Otherwise it is like offering a certification for Windows 7 only, or
> the apocryphal doctor who specializes in the left hand.  I'd define
> the competency as "Open source productivity" or "the open source
> office", and consider both desktop software as well as complimentary
> server software like content management, and the skills needed to get
> this all working together.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>
>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
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--=20
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications

Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

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