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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Certified DEVs
Date Sun, 09 Jun 2013 19:35:34 GMT
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>
>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
>
> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the TDF process:
>
> From the page you cite:
>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the Certification
Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering Steering Committee.
>
> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation):
>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is for your
information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily complete nor up-to-date. Specifically
does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked
to individually assess if the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements.
If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
>
> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like" comparison
may be fodder for press FUD.
>

For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:

http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight

> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X commits to the
code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported by examining the commit logs of
LO and comparing with their list finding the person with the least commits who is on their
list.
>
> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post. This could also
point to our full committer count to show that the project values all contributions.
>
> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies that are contributing.
>

The other part is this:  what the market really needs is an easy way
for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
extensions or core, and be productive.   This is a need for good,
up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc.  When that is in place
then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
are not also committers.  But until we've more fully enabled this
larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice.  And
that doesn't really accomplish anything.  It is just heaping titles on
the same core rather than extending the reach.

Regards,

-Rob


> Regards,
> Dave
>
>>
>> On 9 June 2013 17:24, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 7:36 AM, janI wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9 June 2013 16:04, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>>>>>
>>>>> While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
>>>>> something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
>>>>> considering such a thing?
>>>>>
>>>
>>> The LO page is more about the people who are "certified" coders. This is a functional
equivalent to an svn auth list on the codebase - those AOO committers who work on the codebase
as opposed to QA, Infra, Marketing and most importantly Translation.
>>>
>>> Apache is a flat organization. We don't make this distinction. Do we want to
start playing a marketing game of numbers, or do we want to put our energy into writing the
best code? [4]
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the committer status, covers much of the "certification", if we do
>>>> such a thing for developers, we should also do it for
>>>> QA, documenters etc.
>>>
>>> Exactly. If anything we should highlight our differences. We are an organization
where active contribution and engagement of all kinds is important. It is community over code.
[1]
>>> .
>>>> I do like the lo page, as such, because it clearly shows who (and from
>>>> where) are paid, and who are volunteers. Such a list would be nice to have
>>>> for newcommers, especially if it included a line or two about the interest
>>>> of each.
>>>
>>> We have built similar information. Committers just need to maintain it.
>>>
>>> It is currently in the CWiki here [2]
>>>
>>> Originally it was here [3]
>>>
>>> We could add more here, or we could describe that the project is a community
of volunteers, etc. We could remind committers to update their details on the wiki or request
help with doing so.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> [1] http://communityovercode.com/
>>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers
>>> [3] http://openoffice.apache.org/people.html
>>>
>>> [4] I don't want to restart this discussion, but this is one reason why I am
against having a different svn auth list for the codebase unless there is a demonstrated problem.
This may be done in private. If I have inexplicably changed my mind later then it will be
because a real security threat to the AOO codebase is manifest.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> rgds
>>>> jan I.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ian
>>>>>
>>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>>>>
>>>>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>>>>
>>>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>>
>>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>>> Wales.
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>
>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
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>>
>
>
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